FrankTalk.org

Guys,
I receive emails and membership applications from partners and wives who are at the end of their ropes about their husband and his ED. The universal theme is that they have struggled, and usually failed, with getting him to do something about it. My wife says that women need to know what is going on. Women can't figure out men anymore than men understand women. One thought was to write an open letter to women who come to FrankTalk, giving them a glimpse into the emotional turmoil of ED. Why do men withdraw? What is the sense of failure? What is the real pain that is going on?
Men don't communicate the same as women and a woman will often attempt to help a guy and get him to talk about it, but that approach often results in a man feeling beleaguered and blamed.
Help us create some information that would help women understand what is going on. We will keep this a male only site - don't worry. But women come here very frustrated and their men have withdrawn and she feels rejected. We might even put this on a separate site so women just click through.
Could you guys give us some insight so that we can write a letter that women will understand? This will, in turn, help a lot of guys out there.
Thanks
Paul

Paul,
I think you may have struck a nerve. You are absolutely correct. I had my wife set down with me at the computer and took her to Frank Talk and let her read about the problems men with ED face. I did point out that I was one of those men and she agreed that is is a problem that together we must deal with. It was interesting to see her reaction to some of the solutions that different men are trying and succeeding with. She as always been very understanding of my problem (ED). I now think she has a better grip of what a man must go through both mentally and physically. Thank you for FT and all those who are so willing to give advice and help.

Hello to one and all.

I saved some links from years past that deal with exactly this subject. We were lucky to have found our way back to a fulfiling sexual life for us both but it was not without some bumps in the road. The links cover this rather well. I will go find them and get back to you soon.

Paul, should I post the links URL or the text by cutting and pasting? It is only text so I do not imagine it takes up much space on your server. But it is up to you. I could also send it to you personally and you could edit and post if you wish.

Just let me know your wishes.
Jim

Jim,
just cut and paste, don't worry about the space. I'm interested to see what you've got.

This is a difficult question for most of us men to even think about.

What is it that men are unable to tell women? I'm looking for the really hard stuff. Why couldn't we tell her? Or what was hard to explain to her?

Articles tell us to talk about it. Well, they don't tell us how to talk about it, or how to put complex feelings into words. I have a sneaky feeling these articles were either written by women, or some guy who has never had to struggle with ED.

I tend to see a lot of minimizing of men's feelings and pain when it comes to this stuff. Men DO handle their feelings differently than women and sometimes talking about it is not the solution that is realistic at that moment. I would love to have a web page for women/partners to read and the man can go "Yeah! That's it! that's exactly how I feel."
Thanks jim
Paul

Guys,
here is something I wrote to a wife. Would you tell me if it makes sense to you about what a guy is feeling?

"...to a woman, this can often appear as "he doesn't care about US or me." Here's a way to think of it.... when the bank is knocking at your door and you have no money. You don't answer the door. Even if they just want to ask how your job is going, you know that ultimately the question of money is going to come up.
A woman can say, let's just cuddle. But the man knows that in himself, the urge to go further is going to come up. He can't deliver. So, even cuddling or foreplay is a huge reminder of what a loser he is. It's everywhere he looks. Simply looking at his wife reminds him that he's a loser cause most men look at their wives and have memories and thoughts...which is what is supposed to happen, but those memories and thoughts remind him that he's a loser. His wife asking for affection reminds him that he's a loser. His answer? put up more walls so he doesn't have to think about it. Distractions, keep busy, work harder.
So, can the wife change him? nope. He needs to know that he's not a loser and the best way to do that is find other guys in the same boat. Men judge themselves pretty harshly and when they find acceptance they can often start to heal. Can this acceptance come from their wives? not often. Cause the wife/partner represents the pain.

Am I close in capturing some of the feelings as to why men withdraw from partners when ED comes along? help me out.
Paul

Yes Paul, your close. In my case a single event started our sexual healing. I wrote about it before and will now copy a little.

My surgery and radiation were long over and my dick would not get hard. I had started reading porn alone late at night and masterbating when I could not sleep because my dick was soft and this is what happened:

We get through that and come back home and I start roaming again late at night on the Net. One of those nights I look up at door of the extra bedroom where we keep the computer and I see her and she is crying. She sits down and says "Please understand I am not sad that you are doing that. I am sad you are doing that without me. Cancer is not yours alone, it affects me and us. I have been walking around on tippy toes trying to helpful, supportive and allow you time to heal. That type of walking stops now."

"In our lives we have done many things together, most with the help and support of the other. That is what couples do they help and support. Do you think you are the only one with sexual needs that should be satisfied by this marriage? People have many senses like sight, sound, taste and touch. We left some of those options long ago. Now your hurt and I want to help. I will help bring some of those variables back into our lives if you allow me too. If you do not I have some other decisions to make. So for right now go back to what you were doing but I want this selfishness to stop."

"I will not allow you to turn into a selfish old man while you are with me. I want to get old together with you. There is a big difference."

If your husband, partner, or family member has just been diagnosed with prostate cancer—or his cancer has recurred—you may be feeling frightened, overwhelmed, or discouraged.
We understand because we’ve been there.

This web site ( http://www.hisprostatecancer.com/index.html ) was created to help you during this difficult time. It provides information to support you and your loved one as you make important decisions, such as choosing among the many treatment options. It also provides information about potential problems or concerns that may arise before or after treatment.

If you are searching for information for your loved one, you'll find a wealth of it here. Take what you need right now for him, and come back later for yourself.

Before he passed away from prostate cancer in January of 2008, advocate Harry Pinchot gave a beautiful speech (which you can read at yananow.net) about how men need to acknowledge all that their wives and partners do for them.

Harry talked about how men with prostate cancer expect their wives and partners to always be there for them in their time of need, care for them, listen to them, cope with their mood swings, fix the special foods they need to eat, bear their fears and anxieties, and be their constant cheerleaders.

He urged men to remember that wives and partners have their own fears and anxieties (we know from studies that wives and partners experience as much stress as their loved ones). He also urged them not to dismiss wives/partners’ concerns because they are just as great.

That got us thinking that there should be a "Bill of Rights" for wives and partners. There is no life instruction book that comes with a loved one's diagnosis. As wives and partners, we often “wing it” as we go, taking the ups and downs of the disease in stride.

Bill of rights for wives and partners

•Cry as often as you need to but look for humor everyday.

•Worry all you want but know that it won’t change a thing.

•You can be a tower of strength and still fall apart.

•You don’t always have to know the right thing to say.

•Accept that you will never be the perfect wife/partner.

•Forgive yourself for making mistakes.

•On days when you have nothing to give, know that it will be enough.

•Take care of yourself and don’t feel guilty about it.

•Give yourself permission to forget about prostate cancer for a day.

•Hate the disease but always love the man.

•Grieve what you’ve lost and celebrate what you’ve got left.

•Let go of the illusion that you can handle this alone.

•When the burden is too heavy, give it to God.

Right now she is up north visiting distant family and since I can no longer travel easy, I'm left with my dick again for a few weeks. Just before she left we took several opportunities to play with each other. I took her to a birthday dinner. We returned from the beach and took a bath together and after a little skin care for each I took a half a generic Levitra. We had great fun for many hours with that erection. We licked, sniffed ,rubbed and tasted till we had to stop and sleep.

Our conclusions now after 6 years are as follows. You must get in the boat and go canoeing. If you stop your dead. Your stroke matters not. Any combination of partners, any sexual technique, any aid is fair game when it comes to finding your new New Sexual Normal after cancer.

That's how we feel and feedback is always welcome.

Jim

In fact the information exchange part is probably the key one. Lack of understanding the scope of the problem often results in communication withdrawal and associated depression.
In my case, I just discovered that in according to my wife's understanding, the only reason why a man cannot have sex is because "he doesn't want to"
On my question how come that she thinks like that after being married for 16 years? She said - that's what she understood by analogy with female sexuality
I guess reading too much of "woman romantic novels" doesn't really help too much in real life

danny1553 wrote:In fact the information exchange part is probably the key one. Lack of understanding the scope of the problem often results in communication withdrawal and associated depression.
In my case, I just discovered that in according to my wife's understanding, the only reason why a man cannot have sex is because "he doesn't want to"
On my question how come that she thinks like that after being married for 16 years? She said - that's what she understood by analogy with female sexuality
I guess reading too much of "woman romantic novels" doesn't really help too much in real life

Danny - that's sad, and often true. Many women it seems, want to "own" the problem and wallow in it, like it's an indictment of their attractiveness to the man. "If you truly loved me you would....." seems to be how a lot of them think. Maybe emotional honesty in all things can lead to emotional trust, in other words, we can cause a lack of trust by all we say and do along the road to such a crisis. When we get smacked down by prostatectomey, I would have thought it would be a medical certificate for erectile problems, sometimes it is seen as just excuses, go figure!

I am sorry for a bit of too graphic details but here is how I made my wife to think a bit differently. Sometimes during the orgasm she gets her clitoris very hard and sometimes she doesn’t. So I asked her, does it mean that "when your clit is hard you are truly enjoying it and when it is soft you do not want me"? She said – “of course not”. Then I said, "when you want me just make your clit hard". She said – “I cannot, this is not something I can control”. Bingo! That’s exactly like to men. We want, but in case of a “lazy dick” it just doesn’t get hard enough regardless how badly we want the woman.

That made her think (at least I hope so) that there might be not that simple – like if you want the woman you get an erection; and if you do not want it you do not get it.

Well Danny Boy, I think you have smacked the nail right on the head my friend. How we feel and what we want can NOT be measured by a hard dick. They are seperate and not easy to control. We receive many different kinds of stimulation that may or may not produce results. Stimulation can be sight, sound, taste, touch or smell and the easy reliable tools from that kit need constant variety to keep things interesting and working. Sex does NOT disappear but it is MORE work after ED enters both lives.

Jim