FrankTalk.org

At my last check, my total testosterone level was running about 470. I read somewhere that figuring the available testosterone is more complicated. Has anyone found a benefit to doing the more complicated testing?

My Endocrinologist (I see him for my diabetes) had been checking my T level on a regular basis for the past 18 years. It has slowly been declining and came in at 289 last year. Though I have been prescribed Viagra for the past 15 years to offset my increasing ED, the Endo advised that 289 was still low normal for a 69 yer old man. I made an appointment with a urologist who also tested for total T with similar results. However, he was willing to prescribe 1% Testim which brought my total T up to 800.

It doesn't really answer your question, but illustrates that some specialists work with total T only. 480 ia well within the normal range. However, if you are experiencing many of the traditional symptoms of low T, you may indeed want to test for the free T levels just to be sure.

You didn't mention whether you were tested by a GP or a specialist (endocrinologist or urologist). A specialist may be able to get into the fine details of your problem.

ONe reason docs are sometimes reluctant to prescribe testosterone treatment for men is that prostate cancer cells feed on testosterone. Just saying. When T levels are "low but still within the range of normal", T therapy may just be too risky, especially if the patient has ever had even slightly elevated PSA levels or even slightly enlarged prostate.

Greg

dtwarren,

My urologist monitors my T levels constantly.
I was down around 250 when he suggested I try Testopel injections.
Wow what a difference. My level is around 800 now.
Needless to say my energy level picked up along with everything good.
I get these 75mg pellets injected every 6 months. No mess at all and no pain.
Doc is always checking the prostate to make sure everything is good.
Just so you know they inject the pellets into the butt cheek pretty deep and they desolve
very slowly. My insurance covers almost all of the costs.
You may want to check into this! It is fairly new stuff.

antelope wrote:ONe reason docs are sometimes reluctant to prescribe testosterone treatment for men is that prostate cancer cells feed on testosterone. Just saying. When T levels are "low but still within the range of normal", T therapy may just be too risky, especially if the patient has ever had even slightly elevated PSA levels or even slightly enlarged prostate.

The idea that testosterone "feeds prostate cancer cells" is a commonly held view among the medical community, but unfortunately its based on incorrect and misinterpreted studies. My urologist -- who treats me for both low testosterone and did my implant recently -- is from Harvard Med School and has published detailed repudiations of the testosterone cancer fallacy. His name is Abraham Morgentaler and if you're interested in reading about this research, his book is called "Testosterone for Life" (http://www.amazon.com/Testosterone-Life-Recharge-Vitality-Overall/dp/0071494804/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316745510&sr=8-1). Among other things, he uses the data from the original "testosterone=cancer" studies to disprove that conclusion.

My testosterone levels were considered "low normal". Going on testosterone therapy (Testopel pellet implants), has made a huge difference in my energy levels, mental clarity, and overall well-being.

Good information. Thanks.

When my total T was in the upper 200s, "vitamin V" was not very effective and my interest was all but gone. I started with 50 mg Testim topical (1 tube) daily, which raised it to 400-500 range. For the first month, it was AWESOME, and then the results dropped (or drooped). At 2 tubes/day (100 mg), the level was over 700, but the side effects were unacceptable to me. I had larger breasts than some of the young women I coach in running. Excess testosterone can be converted into estrogen.

I am about 6 months into a single weekly 200mg testosterone cypionate injection, and I feel pretty good. I am waiting to learn my most recent testosterone levels. I just started on 20 mg tamoxifen twice daily, which blocks the breast tissue from absorbing the extra estrogen.

Other than the increase in breast tissue, I have noticed two effects from both topical and injectable T. One is my resting heart rate goes from upper 50s when not on it, to low 70s when on it. And, weight gain of about 10 pounds. I wish that weight gain were muscle mass, but the measurements do not indicate such.

At my last visit, my doc suggested I may want to try injectable pellets to minimize the swings (which I hardly notice). He did not mention a brand name, such as Testopel. My employer's prescription drug plan covers it, but they do not provide a price. Another brand was over $2,200 per injection (3-4/year), with a $200 co-pay for each one. I about choked! This is contrasted with about $300 and a $30 co-pay for 10-weeks of injectable. The Testim topical was not cheap either, about the same as the long-term pellets.

There are several types of total and free testosterone tests. The most accurate are based on liquid chromatography/mass spectrometry.

Here is more information:

https://www.discountedlabs.com/testoste ... _limit=all

Whichever method you chose, you need the proper amounts of testosterone consistently in your system. This is vital for energy, function, muscle tone, sleep and several others. I’m with hockey on this- testepel pellets are the best option. I was on them for 5yrs until my RPP, and am waiting to get back on them. My uro checks my total and free T every 3mo.

In my case, I had the cancer detected from the biopsy, not the PSA. My psa was only at 5.1. So consistent monitoring is the key.

BrooksBro wrote:When my total T was in the upper 200s, "vitamin V" was not very effective and my interest was all but gone. I started with 50 mg Testim topical (1 tube) daily, which raised it to 400-500 range. For the first month, it was AWESOME, and then the results dropped (or drooped). At 2 tubes/day (100 mg), the level was over 700, but the side effects were unacceptable to me. I had larger breasts than some of the young women I coach in running. Excess testosterone can be converted into estrogen.

I am about 6 months into a single weekly 200mg testosterone cypionate injection, and I feel pretty good. I am waiting to learn my most recent testosterone levels. I just started on 20 mg tamoxifen twice daily, which blocks the breast tissue from absorbing the extra estrogen.

Other than the increase in breast tissue, I have noticed two effects from both topical and injectable T. One is my resting heart rate goes from upper 50s when not on it, to low 70s when on it. And, weight gain of about 10 pounds. I wish that weight gain were muscle mass, but the measurements do not indicate such.

At my last visit, my doc suggested I may want to try injectable pellets to minimize the swings (which I hardly notice). He did not mention a brand name, such as Testopel. My employer's prescription drug plan covers it, but they do not provide a price. Another brand was over $2,200 per injection (3-4/year), with a $200 co-pay for each one. I about choked! This is contrasted with about $300 and a $30 co-pay for 10-weeks of injectable. The Testim topical was not cheap either, about the same as the long-term pellets.

200mgs of T a week??? This will definitely create excess estrogen and other side effects from excessive T levels. 200mgs per week is considered in some circles as an initial body building cycle of anabolic steroids.
Counteracting excess E2 levels long term with a SERM such as tamoxifen is not good TRT.
Over time, when the body is trying to cope with excessive testosterone levels of aromatase enzyme increase in various tissues in the body. This can take many months to develop and it can take even longer for the body to reverse this. The stimulus for this to happen can sometimes be a period of time when T levels are below normal. In other words a period of time off testosterone replacement. Otherwise the body may continue to covert too much T into E2.
Excess T is NOT a good thing. Bodybuilders have learnt that using excessive T can down regulate or desensitise the T receptor. Hence why they need to cycle the use of these drugs. A level of T can be supraphysiologic even when it is measured as being in the upper range of normal for some men using T replacement.

Pellets can work for some people. However, the issue with these is you cannot adjust the dosage easily. Once the pellet is in, you are stuck with that for months. Being able to adjust T levels is very important, as this can take much time to ascertain for a particular individual.