Seriously?

[alibaba]

I have a hard time understanding how some people manage to just pop into a doctor who off the cuff states you might want to consider an implant, a few weeks later you have it installed and all is jolly. Getting one was a battle and again getting a revision is too. Dr. Kramer told me United Healthcare is a problem for him and to call Connie to see if it were possible. I did. I have talked to Connie who gave me the codes to give my insurer, United Healthcare who I have had for decades. The response was:
Based on the average payout for a replacement revision and comparing to the cost of my original implant and given that Dr. Andrew Kramer is not a United Healthcare provider, my expected out of pocket cost for the procedure code can be expected to be around $23,900. $5900 of it is an out of network provider deductible,the rest is projected copay. I have $0 copay and $0 deductible for any United Healthcare network provider once I've met a $2950 annual deductible which I did 01/04/16. Based on this I must expect to be out $20 grand plus expenses to use Kramer. They suggested I go back to Milam again who refuses to do scrotal, who does not communicate, has nasty staff, word I've received from others who went back to see him for a revision, he says nothing is wrong with their implant so he will not do anything. Back to calling doctors. I was ready for Kramer to do it at his earliest convenience. My wife was already pricing hotels last night.

I know the suggestion is going to be like it always was, find another insurer, pay out of pocket or let Medicare take care of it. Again I have 8 years to go to be Medicare eligible, not an option though a dozen here on Ft have suggested it to me. I've spent DAYS seeking insurance quotes last winter and every policy any broker can find offers 20% less coverage for more than the $25,000 a year my plan costs. ( me only). United Healthcare based their information on the average billed cost ( by their experience records) for a replacement revision to with the procedure codes given me by Dr. Kramer's office to be $94,000. That is a lot of jack to pay for a revision but considering the fuck-up implant was well over $70k not a surprise. Out of pocket still cheaper than Eid numbers but damn. Every policy quoted to me was quoted that they could not tell me if an implant was covered until I bought and received the actual policy.

AMS/Boston Scientific suggested I see another doc in Nashville for the revision. The guy says they send everyone to him for second opinions. His name escapes me now but I did a search on FT and his name only came up one time and he did do a revision on a Milam implant for that person. With the experiences I had in that town compared to other hospitals I've been in, I am not sure I would go to even Eid or Kramer if they were in Nashville. Everything I've ever had to do with that town sucked including a franchise I bought for $65,000 there in 1999 and the company filed chapter 11 a month after delivering my first partially filled order and cashing my check.

This s**t is really starting to suck again.

Wife and I tried another round of coitus last night. Long marathon. Did not do much for me but I had some fun trying as it did not fold up on me for a change. Still no feeling in my dick and it is obvious I am playing with a shortened ground down pencil in a washtub compared to before implant. Wife said last night it was "o.k.". This morning she said it did little for her because the girth and length I used to have are not there. She went further to say if we do not find a way to get the size back she doubts it will ever do anything for her again. Damn I spoiled that woman good for too many years!

Earlier today I was looking forward to posting that I was scheduling the revision. Fucking downer days.

[merrix]

Sorry to hear.

I just don't understand the prices you refer to. I paid 100% myself with Eid, and it was a fraction of the numbers you mention.
How is that?

[alibaba]

Eid would be more than the $23,900 plus hotels and such were a little higher than Boston. Eid wanted several day stay, Kramer said go home next day likely. Doctors other than Eid do business in a hospital setting and the hospital fees are insane. Every practice gets into the act. I'd have to go back and look up the exact amount, but the original bill for my first implant at Vanderbilt exceeded $71,000. Everyone says the revision would be likely more complicated. Kramer did not seem to think complicated but he says he does many infrapubic to scrotal revisions. Some doctors claim they are limited on self pay what they will do for a set price so you get X product only and Y amount of work for Z dollars. It appears when Eid sets a price he does what needs to be done. Most policies now are 80/20 plans after a deductible and with copays. My plan pays 100% but the copay for a non contract doctor is 20% of the billed amount which may be inflated to hell and back since there is no contract price. One guy here told me his hospital billed over $100k for his implant. Sometimes it has been cheaper to self pre-pay a negotiated price for out of network doctors than it is to pay a percent of their billed inflated price. More often than in the past, hospitals are charging the inflated fees and sticking to them for self pay. $11 per pill for Tylenol is a common story. Insane shit. For the most part, nobody knows what their bill will be here in advance of a procedure in the states and most times the price insurance pays is less than the original billed price. There are names for the billed price, negotiated price, price self pay charges and such but I do not recall them. Been 3 decades since I passed the broker exam.

[alibaba]

Had a visit chat with my internist a few minutes ago and he asked me if I have ever considered just forgetting the whole dick deal and not working myself to death trying to get it replaced or working myself to death to pay for one. Yes, we have many long late night visits bouncing ideas on each other. He reminded me that he suggested that before and I really should consider it being every patient he has ever had who got an implant had a horror story of several revisions before one was finally acceptable or they gave up trying. I asked why we never read these horror stories on the forums and he told me one guy tried to post about his on a forum and they kicked him off of it for the post. That was the point he became suicidal deciding nobody cared including the doctor who did his first 3 implants. Thankfully he is better now after 5 implants and his wife stayed with him throughout. I swear if it were not for getting so sore with the tubing wrapped around my dick and the freakin pump wearing on my scrotum, I think I would say fuck it all, but a revision should fix that and maybe make this thing serviceable too. It has been suggested that any urologist could remove the tubing and pump, cap the tubes ( they have a kit for that) and leave the cylinders in place to reduce scaring and shrinking but if you are going to have surgery why the hell not do the whole fucking job instead of some half assed shit? I don't think there is a day goes by I wish I never had an implant and 50% of the days I also think this thing COULD BE cool if not for all the issues. I mean truly awesome cool if there were no issues.

[merrix]

You are like ma Alibaba - laying out the text in looong posts.
I still didn't get you though.

In one sentence: Why would Eid charge you three times (or whatever) more than what he charged me?

[alibaba]

Eid would not charge 3 times. Last discussion was still my out of pocket would be more than the $23k plus air travel and a week in the hotel lovely and such expenses. I said Eid would cost more than my $23.9k out of pocket with Kramer.
Insurance came up with the Average hospital billed $94k revision based on the procedure codes Connie at Kramer's office gave me and a non contract doctor such as Kramer triggers a 20% co-pay charge plus a $5900 deductible.
Back in 2014 or earlier in 2015 I have posted the breakdown of expenses to go to Eid. It would cost me around $30k total. You did not include airfare for 1 ( 2 in my case) in your total cost breakdown.

Without a doctor that takes insurance from the largest insurer in the country, i am out a freakin big pot of cash and I damn sure intend for this round to be with a doctor that gives a crap about what result I get instead of molding my dick into his sicko version of what everyone would be if he made dicks. Seems I can find a doctor in every profession w/o issue that takes my insurance except dick docs and the few that do will not take a person with 4 hernia repairs, a prostatectomy and HIV which should be a non issue unless you are a nitwit or a bigot ( some were and made statements proving it).

Sorry for the long post. They tend to get longer at 1 a.m. I must get to work. Neighbor lady has developed some issue that is causing her bones to snap under her own weight over the last 2 months and I promised to help her today. Arm and both legs this month. Neighbors help neighbors else you don't deserve to live on this planet globe earth.
Cheers.

[gingerman9]

Have you contacted Robert Cornell in Houston. He does a significant number of revisions of the high volume guys' implants. He also is in network for United Healthcare. He also installed my implant, a CX, with no problems. I lost no length and my dick is 9 inches. My total out of pocket cost was approximately $21,000 which I paid for myself because my group United Healthcare policy excluded IPP.

[alibaba]

I talked to his office 2 years ago and was to get a return call if he would do it. Never received the return call so the assumption is he was not willing to tackle it. I do not beg for responses. I am a paperwork whore. I have filing cabinets of records and notes going back 40 years on everything and kept a file for dick implant and notebook on every doctor I called.

As to length, glad you did not lose any. I have already lost, the question is whether any of it can be gotten back. Eid said he did not think so, Kramer said likely some, Lavine says it does not happen even though his patient I talked to said he was the one who got his missing 2" back. I will not consider any doc who does infrapubic. I have one, it sucks, and TOO many people who have an infrapubic and told me they have the same issues with theirs as I do as well as the doctors I've seen since. The problems are common. I know there is going to someone post once again they love their Perito infrapubic, never got an infection and pass out cards advertising them at church every Sunday, but it is what it is. I never wanted one installed that way but was told my impression of the design issues with it were unfounded and was offered this as the only option I was allowed. I was not wrong and 4 doctors now have confirmed it. All say it should never be installed this way unless you are at minimum mildly overweight, have high risk for infection, not very active, and a normal to small size penis or the doctor has little experience installing reservoirs.

[LMCatman]

Both my initial implant and my revision were paid for by my Humana HMO. I was out of pocket about 2k the first time and about 5k for the revision. Dr Perito was "out of network" so I paid him myself. My case was "very interesting" and he was, in my opinion, very kind to me price-wise. Hospital and all/most were covered by Humana after my deductibles.

[gingerman9]

Ali, I am going to see Cornell on May 5 for a testopel injection. If you want me to ask him if his non-response was intentional or a mistake by a support person, I will do so. Please advise.