Vanilla wife.

[QuestionGuy]

I do get paid to go to work FreddyFree. I don't always want to - but I know life with a job is better than poverty. I can call in sick occasionally and when there are extenuating circumstances, my employer would certainly be flexible, however, if I blatancy decided I didn't want to work any more - it would be laughable for me to expect to stay employed. I am obviously making a comparison to a middle aged women, who has a good husband, and thinks it is within her prerogative to simply opt out of sex, and expect to remain married. Making a long term commitment to someone does not give them "carte blanche" to ignore their partners needs. Do you guys really not get what I am saying? or are you just being factitious? its hard to tell in a thread like this. Its fine if you fellows disagree with me. To each his own, but I cant imagine going thru life trying to figure out how to jump through all these hoops to try to get my partner to "throw me a few crumbs" and possible grant me some sexual activity if (and only if) all the stars line up.

[bldoink]

I don't really have problems in this department but yes questionguy, I get what you're saying and I don't think you're out of line.

[Larry10625]

I do get paid to go to work FreddyFree. I don't always want to - but I know life with a job is better than poverty. I can call in sick occasionally and when there are extenuating circumstances, my employer would certainly be flexible, however, if I blatancy decided I didn't want to work any more - it would be laughable for me to expect to stay employed. I am obviously making a comparison to a middle aged women, who has a good husband, and thinks it is within her prerogative to simply opt out of sex, and expect to remain married. Making a long term commitment to someone does not give them "carte blanche" to ignore their partners needs. Do you guys really not get what I am saying? or are you just being factitious? its hard to tell in a thread like this. Its fine if you fellows disagree with me. To each his own, but I cant imagine going thru life trying to figure out how to jump through all these hoops to try to get my partner to "throw me a few crumbs" and possible grant me some sexual activity if (and only if) all the stars line up.

Here, here... 100% agree.

Larry

[Lost Sheep]

Yes, if you want to keep your job, you go to work and take leave of your duties only occasionally and for good reasons.

If you want to keep your spouse.... No, wait. A marriage is not a job. It is a partnership. In sickness and in health. Not the same thing by a long shot.

Of course, your marriage is not a "no matter what" commitment. But it is a partnership in which each party may make concessions, accommodations, compromises. At least, that's the concept I accept as "normal marriage". Hugh Hefner or Donald Trump might have had different "arrangements' with their significant others. Rich guys with younger (and apparently disposable) women as their significant others.

Please do not fault me for moralizing or politicizing this discussion. Those are the only two examples (I could think of quickly) of older men with younger women in their lives who arguably were transient.

[QuestionGuy]

A good litmus test to apply in these situations is to change the genders and see if it still looks reasonable. This can be applied to many of these misandry vs. misogyny debates. For instance: how would we feel if one of our male friends never picked up a restaurant or bar tab? How much sympathy would we have for a guy who felt uncomfortable when people "leered" at him when he came to work and gave his presentation in a "tarzan style loin cloth" . If we apply this here: how would we feel if we knew of a couple where a woman was working hard, doing everything she was supposed to : and her husband simple decided sex was no longer his thing, therefore she needed to just give it up. I think we would be calling for his "head on a pike". The men here on this site are going to heroic and sometimes even dangerous measures to deal with ED,(which is something which is out of their control), and Id say at least half of these men are motivated by the impact it is having on their significant other., so its hard to read about men injecting and implanting .....and then, on the same newsgroup, see support for women who "simply don't want to be bothered", like this is some sort of "understood prerogative" that is the birth rite of every female. I doubt it occurred to many women to withhold sex, when we were out of the savanna trying to avoid saber toothed tigers. I reckon a big strong fella was probably something pretty handy to have around back then .

[GruffHunter]

A rambling response from a married gay guy on a Saturday morning, waiting to get two feet of snow dumped on me....

As a guy, I am really thankful that I'm gay. No, really. It seems that today's hetero world is so hung up and trapped in social restrictions that your normal maleness is seriously compromised.

It starts with the puritan precept that "You don't have sex until you're married"

Yeah, right. The majority of American men have had sex before they graduate high school. The Mythology says, "No!," the reality is, "yes."

Then of course, we add on the notion that "Sex should be with one partner, for life."

Again, the mythology and the reality are as far apart as east is from west. It doesn't happen that way.

But worst of all is the entrenched hetero idea that if a man has sex with someone other than his wife (and vice versa), that this is "bad." We call it "cheating." "Infidelity." "Adultery." There is a fusion of the notion of sex and romance, and of sex and faithfulness.

But that's not how Man is wired. Sex and Romance are great together, but one does not require the other. Ham and Cheese are great together on a sandwich, but both are perfectly enjoyable on their own.

In the gay male community, for decades, there has been general agreement that sex is sex and romance/commitment is something entirely different. Men are wired to conquer, to fuck, to seek out outlets for sexual urges and needs - and its perfectly OK. Every gay male couple I know in my age group is in an 'open' marriage: You are committed to each other for life, but you each fuck whoever and wherever and whenever the opportunity presents itself. There is no jealousy, no charge of infidelity, no tearful nights. It's what we do. And since we're *only* dealing with men, the emotional battle of the sexes simply doesnt occur. We get it.

Back in 2005 or so, Dr. Larry McFarland, a gay sexual psychotherapist, completed a doctoral thesis studying the longevity of gay male relationships. He began with a prejudice that 'committed' couples were more stable than open arrangements. Much to his chagrin, after surveying thousands of couples, he concluded the exact opposite: the longest-lasting gay relationships were those that were completely open and honest; followed by truly monogamous relationships; followed by those who pledged themselves to monogamy and then found it didn't work.

I fear for younger gay men. As gays become accepted - and integrated - into hetero society, they are adopting hetero norms; far fewer young gay men believe in open arrangements than those in my (older) generation, and all indications are that their relationships re not going to last...because Men are Men, and Fucking, early and often, is wired into our very being.

All of which is a very long way of saying: Guys need to fuck. If their partner doesn't oblige and engage, they shouldn't be surprised when an outlet is found somewhere else.

[bldoink]

Your "morality" is obviously different from my morality. If you'll refrain from advocating on this forum for or against any particular morality, I'll do the same.

[Larry10625]

A rambling response from a married gay guy on a Saturday morning, waiting to get two feet of snow dumped on me....

As a guy, I am really thankful that I'm gay. No, really. It seems that today's hetero world is so hung up and trapped in social restrictions that your normal maleness is seriously compromised.

It starts with the puritan precept that "You don't have sex until you're married"

Yeah, right. The majority of American men have had sex before they graduate high school. The Mythology says, "No!," the reality is, "yes."

Then of course, we add on the notion that "Sex should be with one partner, for life."

Again, the mythology and the reality are as far apart as east is from west. It doesn't happen that way.

But worst of all is the entrenched hetero idea that if a man has sex with someone other than his wife (and vice versa), that this is "bad." We call it "cheating." "Infidelity." "Adultery." There is a fusion of the notion of sex and romance, and of sex and faithfulness.

But that's not how Man is wired. Sex and Romance are great together, but one does not require the other. Ham and Cheese are great together on a sandwich, but both are perfectly enjoyable on their own.

In the gay male community, for decades, there has been general agreement that sex is sex and romance/commitment is something entirely different. Men are wired to conquer, to fuck, to seek out outlets for sexual urges and needs - and its perfectly OK. Every gay male couple I know in my age group is in an 'open' marriage: You are committed to each other for life, but you each fuck whoever and wherever and whenever the opportunity presents itself. There is no jealousy, no charge of infidelity, no tearful nights. It's what we do. And since we're *only* dealing with men, the emotional battle of the sexes simply doesnt occur. We get it.

Back in 2005 or so, Dr. Larry McFarland, a gay sexual psychotherapist, completed a doctoral thesis studying the longevity of gay male relationships. He began with a prejudice that 'committed' couples were more stable than open arrangements. Much to his chagrin, after surveying thousands of couples, he concluded the exact opposite: the longest-lasting gay relationships were those that were completely open and honest; followed by truly monogamous relationships; followed by those who pledged themselves to monogamy and then found it didn't work.

I fear for younger gay men. As gays become accepted - and integrated - into hetero society, they are adopting hetero norms; far fewer young gay men believe in open arrangements than those in my (older) generation, and all indications are that their relationships re not going to last...because Men are Men, and Fucking, early and often, is wired into our very being.

All of which is a very long way of saying: Guys need to fuck. If their partner doesn't oblige and engage, they shouldn't be surprised when an outlet is found somewhere else.

So what about STD's??? If I fool around on my wife, she would be sleeping with everyone that I have been sleeping with, and they have been sleeping with and on and on and on for the past 10 years. If I were to fool around, I would want to make sure that the person I was sleeping around with was perfectly clean... If I do it whenever, etc., am I not taking an awful big risk and is my partner, who know nothing of the affair also taking a big risk??

Larry

[GruffHunter]

So what about STD's??? If I fool around on my wife, she would be sleeping with everyone that I have been sleeping with, and they have been sleeping with and on and on and on for the past 10 years. If I were to fool around, I would want to make sure that the person I was sleeping around with was perfectly clean... If I do it whenever, etc., am I not taking an awful big risk and is my partner, who know nothing of the affair also taking a big risk??

Larry

Well, first of all, to be crystal clear, you included the idea that your partner,

"who know[s] nothing of the affair...

I thought I had made it clear (maybe not) that I am not advocating 'secret' affairs at all: I am presenting an open marriage option. That is not something you "hide;' it's something you agree on.

Having said that...STDs? So what? Seriously, so what? Yeah, I've had syphilis, and chlamydia, and gonorrhea. Maybe one instance of each, and I'm 59 and been fucking my whole life. You take your meds, and its over. No big deal. If you're less risk tolerant than me, then you agree with your partner that you will always use condoms, get checked on a quarterly basis, etc. There's no reason to fear sex. It's kept the human race alive for millenia.

[GruffHunter]

Your "morality" is obviously different from my morality. If you'll refrain from advocating on this forum for or against any particular morality, I'll do the same.

Ummm...I really dont care what you advocate for or against. Go for it. Do as you wish.

The OP and thread is discussing the problem of a partnership that is struggling with differing sexual needs/appetites. I am simply providing a perspective on that issue from my own vantage point.