Language

[Lost Sheep]

Is there a word equivalent to "fuck" to convey the pure, unbridled joy of coitus performed just for the joy of giving voice to the lustful expression of interpersonal physicality of that particular form of intimacy?

Every other word in my vocabulary just does not do the trick. Too clinical, too tender, too implying of other sentiments.

Does anyone have a true equivalent for the "good" definition of the verb, "fuck"?

Note: the "bad" definition of the word is not what I am asking about. Please do not confuse the two meanings with each other. They are distinct and separate. Almost opposites.

[Lost Sheep]

What a sad state of affairs it is when people are so determined to use it that they jump all over me about Free Speech and Censorship... I will say it one more time. FREE SPEECH AND CENSORSHIP does not apply to private websites. How many more times is Paul going to have to make that statement before it is clear? I guess some guys just cannot communicate effectively without swearing... I am sad for them

Larry

Yes, we are NOT TALKING ABOUT what governments can do. We are talking about what FrankTalk SHOULD do to further the goals and missions of the site and within what the 501(c) law permits before FrankTalk.org is in danger of losing its certification.

Geez. You try to make a site to help guys (and perhaps their partners) suffering from the scourge of E.D. (from whatever cause) and you run into a minefield. Very discouraging. Are we in danger of choking ourselves to death in this debate? Keep your eyes on the prize, guys.

"Wars are not fought so much as good against evil, but against differing concepts of good." (Can anyone tell me the author of that quote, please?"

[warrenw]

I had the nerve to suggest that people stop using a few highly offensive words as we move to a much more public site and all I get is grief.

Let me try to put this in context. You are reacting to a decade old post. This forum isn't making a "move to a much more public site". FT has been public for years and every single post made here has been indexed by multiple search engines and will remain in public view forever and ever. You can't unring that bell.

The site IS public. It has been for 9 years or so.

If you or Paul really believe that language on the forum is a problem, then why not clean up the "bad" language that's already here for new members to see? Right now today I count 1899 occurrences of the word fu*k and it's variations, and 1119 occurrences of "shit", just to pick a couple of examples.

Instead of bitching and moaning maybe you as a "moderator" could do a forum wide "search and replace" of those "bad" words so we don't shock & embarrass anyone coming here for frank talk about erectile dysfunction.

[Lost Sheep]

I had the nerve to suggest that people stop using a few highly offensive words as we move to a much more public site and all I get is grief.

Let me try to put this in context. You are reacting to a decade old post. This forum isn't making a "move to a much more public site". FT has been public for years and every single post made here has been indexed by multiple search engines and will remain in public view forever and ever. You can't unring that bell.

The site IS public. It has been for 9 years or so.

If you or Paul really believe that language on the forum is a problem, then why not clean up the "bad" language that's already here for new members to see? Right now today I count 1899 occurrences of the word fu*k and it's variations, and 1119 occurrences of "shit", just to pick a couple of examples.

Instead of bitching and moaning maybe you as a "moderator" could do a forum wide "search and replace" of those "bad" words so we don't shock & embarrass anyone coming here for frank talk about erectile dysfunction.

warrenw, Larry10625 does not have the authority to edit members' posts, either historic or current.

[Lost Sheep]

Let us consider what effects (if we decide to choose that solution to the problem we seek to resolve) censorship is likely to to produce as unintended consequences. And then let us consider what censorship is likely to do as an intended consequence (that is, "Will it work?"). Lastly, how much effort will it take to make it work?

As to the third question, Larry10625 can speak from experience how difficult it is to "herd the cats" we have in the membership of FrankTalk.

The second question begs debate over what it is we actually seek to accomplish. (A) We want to reduce the amount of blushing among the men here (there are no women invited for membership)? (B) We want to make the site more "presentable" to the World-Wide-Web? To what end, I ask. (C) Some other purpose?

The first question is perhaps the most nuanced. We have men of every walk of life. I know from experience that trying to write from the heart is difficult enough without the added burden of carefully avoiding particular words/expressions that are common in my everyday thought patterns (hard enough to keep some of them out of my speech, let alone my writing).

Of course, writing and editing before posting is possible, but I also know from experience that a lot of my thoughts would never see any other readers' eyes if I had edited them, and thus I would not have had benefits of those readers' debate and subsequent education (and correction) I have received.

[bldoink]

Wow, this seems to be going downhill!

I don't think Florida is still part of the Bible Belt (that ship has sailed) but I do come from that heritage and I'm a believer. However, living in "The World" I don't expect others to share my beliefs or morals. Plus wrongly or rightly I do see more grey where some see only black or white, but then I still do believe there is black and white. (I shouldn't have to say this but nothing I just said has anything to do with race or ethnicity.)

I belong to other forums, some even relating to firearms, that are, IMHO, moderated with ridiculous strictness as to profanity, politics and to a much lesser degree, religion. They're also very strictly moderated for content placement. If put into the wrong sub-forum a thread is quickly relocated. That strictness works OK but it can be annoying. I don't always agree with the strict moderation and I have been slapped on occasion. For profanity, if you can believe that.

Due to the nature of this forum I don't think such strict moderation is appropriate here on this forum. It is, after all called "Frank Talk". I do believe the use of profanity can be taken too far. Too far is when it's profanity just for the sake of profanity like in Gruff Hunter's previous example. I don't have a problem with a conversation being "lightly seasoned" with some choice words. I have no problem with using non-medical terms for some body parts or natural functions or actions. I think it encourages openness and frankness in the discussion. I use the common "vulgar" terms regularly.

I really haven't noticed a lot of profanity on this site. I haven't seen anything I would see as a major problem. But then there are sub-forums (Implants for example) that I don't read extensively on a regular basis, although I do drive by on occasion. So I may have missed something that was outrageous.

As for vulgarity, due to the nature of this site I'm not sure what that is or would be. Due to the general subject matter that's a tough moving target to hit. It requires wisdom on the part of a moderator and a willingness to accept criticism and reconsider prior decisions and change, if appropriate.

I have been put off more by some content and/or the way it was presented than any profanity I've witnessed. Again, due to the nature of this site, I think it was largely more a matter of placement than content. Although when I read posts of what appear to be thinly disguised solicitations for same sex prostitution, I'm not sure where that belongs but certainly not anyplace besides the "ED and Gay men" sub-forum, if there. Even without the thinly veiled prostitution solicitations, the associated topic would be at least more appropriate in the "Sexuality" Sub-forum. I think some of these topics or threads, especially when misplaced, pose a higher risk of driving or keeping away men that need and could benefit from this site than some sprinklings of profanity.

This site sure as hell isn't the military and I don't think it's reasonable to expect members to act with military decorum or discipline. Lets just be thankful the members aren't as irreverent, sarcastic and as crude, rude and socially unacceptable as most members of the para-military Law Enforcement community is when in an informal setting.

Larry, if I may TALK FRANKLY, I don't always agree with you, but I do recognize the effort you put into your moderation of the site. I understand that it's a largely thankless task. I don't think you should feel personally offended when others disagree with you and express it. Yes you deserve respect and some degree of obedience, but not anything like what is required in a military unit.

PS: I made this post a few hours ago but it apparently didn't take. Fortunately I had a draft saved in notepad.

PS #2: And to think all of this was caused by a zombie post resurrected by a spammer!

[tomas1]

Nicely said.

[LMCatman]

I'm an old guy who very rarely swears. Well....I've used fuck in probably half or more of my posts. I rarely use the word other than here (ok...I use it in bed with young women too). We're on the site because....we couldn't, we wanted to and now we can.....FUCK.....!!!!!

Offended? Sorry, but not all that sorry 'cause......well, you know!

[Larry10625]

I never said that this site needs to be moderated in a military way... I was simply pointing out that if my subordinates treated me with the total disrespect that some of FT members do, they would be charged. "Thankless job"??? You have no idea. You guys can say and do whatever you want. I don't care anymore. Why this was brought up has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Someone said that they don't see the swearing... really? would you like to borrow my glasses? This is BY FAR the most laxed site I have ever seen and yet when I ask you guys to do something, all I get is grief, disrespect and nonsense about censorship WHICH DOES NOT APPLY TO PRIVATE SITES. Think about it for a second... I have asked you guys for only a handful of things. You guys can stop saying that you appreciate what I do here, all evidence to the contrary.

Larry

[happycamper59]

Larry, I would like to believe the vast majority of members here appreciate what you do. I see it time and time again the praise for FT and the help it brings so many of us. bldoink says it best, as he usually does!

I do not like to hear the f-bomb in public or from my kids. I scold them when they do. However, it is appropriate, IMHO, at times on FT.

A bigger concern (not mine, but likely the public) are the pics of penises.

But again, please don't change FT. It is a beautiful thing.