Connection between Injections and Peyronies

[Hawkman]

I found valuable information here and I want to just contribute my condensed history to forewarn others. In brief, I had prostate cancer surgery laparoscopically at Sloan-Kettering cancer center. I wanted to be proactive to assure I restored my sex life. Prior to surgery I got erections on demand and they lasted as long as I wanted them to last, even after orgasm or through multiple orgasms. I was convinced nothing could ever keep me from regaining erections, especially if I was proactive and dedicated. WRONG!

I started getting a few night-time erections within 6-8 weeks of surgery. I ordered a VED and used it a few times per day to preserve length. Things seemed on track. I went to a well know sexual medicine doctor in Manhattan 4 hours from my home. I am personally convinced that I developed Peyronies Disease solely from the Bimix injections that he prescribed. For those new to this forum or male sexual health, Peyronies is scaring of the Tunica Albuginea, the fibrous envelope over the corpora cavernosa. Once set in motion this scaring can over-run healthy uninjured tissue. It destroys elasticity of the penis resulting in deformity and loss of size. Since I am BUSY administering the forum and website at http://www.PeyroniesForum.net I will be brief. Hopefully this condensed account is in order and makes sense. If you feel you need my full story or that of others it is on the PDS website.

As I said I as prescribed bimix injections. I thought I had found a magic switch that gave me great erections as good as before surgery. I felt if necessary I could use this stuff for life. So much of my life went into researching prostate cancer (Gleason 8) that I knew little about possible risks of Peyronies Disease or even ED. Once during injection (before I was diagnosed with Peyronies Disease) I must have been in scar tissue with the needle because I could not push the plunger. I thought it was just the plunger until I started to back out and the resistance was instantly gone and the plunger dropped. I told his nurse (by email) and she says "NEVER inject if you encounter scar tissue. Move the needle." I thought, “WHY THE HELL AM I JUST NOW GETTING THOSE INSTRUCTIONS. Shouldn’t that be part of the injection training???? Even then the fact that there was scar tissue present didn’t seem to be any concern to them and I was too dumb and wrapped up in cancer research to think of Peyronies Disease. I was too dumb to appreciate the possible consequences. Now it sounds beyond stupid, but to me back then, and even to Dr. Mulhall now, it seemed like no big deal.

I emailed Dr. Mulhall's nurse that the underside of my penis did not seem to fill out during erections anymore. I ignorantly thought "maybe the bimix was not getting to that area real well". ANY Peyronies Disease Clinic should have known that possibly the tunica was not stretching because of Peyronies Disease scarring. They seemed unconcerned, so I was as happy as a pig in crap. Even later when I told her in alarm that I suddenly had a downward curve that makes my dick stand up when I was laying on my back no one screamed “OH HELL, YOU HAVE Peyronies Disease!” I had to wait 2 more months for an appointment and was told to keep injecting.

In my research, I found clinical studies that conclude papaverine is more prone than some other agents to cause plaque (scar tissue). At least one site associates it with plaque IN THE CAVERNOSAL TISSUE. Dr. Mulhall says there is NO EVIDENCE (not proof, but even any evidence) that injections can cause Peyronies Disease and he told me to keep injecting two or three times a week to help restore erections and keep the tissue healthy. I thought about it and refused to inject any more.

Tip: Always be sure to apply direct pressure over your injection site for 5 or 10 minutes and use no prescription or over the counter blood thinners. Spilled blood trapped in contact with healthy tissue can cause scarring.

MORAL OF THE STORY: If you choose to inject. Monitor for any trace of scar tissue, bend, dent, or other deformity. Be very aware of any slight pain or ache with erection. If you notice any of this stop injections and educate your self on Peyronies disease and find one of the rare urologists that know anything about this incurable disease.

Good Luck to All !
Hawk

[shipper222001]

Someone told me its a good thing to measure your erect penis every now and then to make sure it isnt getting smaller because of scar tissue. Is there any treatment for peyronies?

[Hawkman]

Shipper, that is absolutely correct, objective measurements like bone pressed stretched flaccid length, and girth measurements of the erect shaft at the base and right behind the glans are helpful. Peyronies scarring can on occasion be uniform and no curve or obvious dent results, only loss of size. This is not typical however.

If you own a vacuum device, you can mark the pumped length right on the clear cylinder with a piece of tape. However, Never pump a vacuum on your penis within 24 yours of injecting as it can cause internal bleeding in the penis.

I was also horrified to see several injectors here that had priapism. That is inexcusable if you have a doctor working with you to get the dose correct and you follow instructions. Also you should have oral Sudafed on hand and take 4 tablets at the 1 hour mark if the erection is not starting to go down. I also had a nurse give me a syringe of Neo-Synephrine. These antihistamines are vaso-constrictors that kill erections pretty quickly. Just like Viagra dilates the blood vessels in your penis and sinuses,antihistamines constrict blood vessels in both places.

Hawk

[shipper222001]

Hawk

is it better to measure when erect? Im afraid Im very small when flaccid so a measurement wouldnt be good. Also can you tell by feeling it. I usually have an erection for about 2 hours even after I ejaculate. However after I climax it does go semi soft for awhile but hard again if I get up.

I always take the Sudafed after 2 hours. I heard that you only have to worry after 3 hours.

[antelope]

As I understand it, the more common benchmark is 4 hours. And my uro told me that it wasn't necesary to be totally flaccid at 4 hours, but for deflation to be underway by then. Rather than take Sudafed, I simply try to use a low enough dose of happy juice--one that makes me happy, but only for an hour or so. If you choose Sudafed, please read the label carefully; antihistamines are generally contraindicated for anyone with BPH or diabetes.

Greg

[Hawkman]

Shipper,

If you are talking about getting an accurate measurement to track any change in size, Bone Pressed, Stretched Flaccid Length (BPSFL) is the standard used by most specialists in sexual dysfunction because erections vary in intensity. It also varies how you hold a ruler, and is affected by weight gain or weight loss because less penis extends out of your body when you gain weight.

BPSFL is measured by pushing a ruler firmly against the pubic bone right above the base of the penis. You then firmly grasp the glans (head) and stretch your penis to maximum length and measure along the top of the penis to the tip. This will closely relate to maximum erect length and is much more consistent day to day than erect length as already stated.

Hawk

[shipper222001]

Hawkman

I love your standard for measuring. By that standard Im an inch bigger. ALmost 7" Wow LOL

[dtwarren1942]

Hawk
Also can you tell by feeling it.

Can any one shed any light on this question. I rub my fingers over my shaft and jelq quite often trying to detect any changes. So far (knock on my woody) I have not noticed any changes.

[Hawkman]

Greg,

This is my concern and that expressed by at least one very prominent sexual dysfunction specialist. Tissue damage starts to occur after 4 hours with a firm erection due to lack of oxygenation and eventually blood coagulation. Sudafed is the commonly prescribed first defense against induced priapism because Sudafed is a direct antagonist to the vasodialator that caused the erection. If you wait 4 hours to take Sudafed , you then have to wait at least 45 minutes to know if it is going to work. It is quite possible it will not. Now you have to rush to the E.R. at night and depending on their staffing and emergency load you will be well past the 4 hour window before you get the urgent attention you need. You can be sure that no matter how you explain your erection to the ER staff, you will not go before a heart attack, shooting , or serious accident victim. At best you are 5 hours into an erection and likely much much more. Is there a chance you can escape from a 5 hour erection without noticeable damage? Yes. Would I do it with my dick or would your doctor do it with his? NO! I had to inject 2 or 3 times a week after my prostatectomy. I think it was a huge mistake leading to PD. Having said that however, I can say that my doctor made sure I would have no priapism event. After every injection I had to call or email his nurse in Manhattan and rate my erection strength on a scale of 1 to 10 on a scale they explained and inform them of the duration of that erection. They would fine tune the dosage accordingly. They also gave me a letter of urgency to give to my ER if I ever had to go. The letter outlined the urgency and consequences of delayed action and exact instructions.

Priapism is not something to take lightly or to gamble with. It requires that the patient be out in front of the problem and that it is treated with a very specific course of action. "Joy juice" is far more likely to make a patient fall asleep with priapism than it is to treat it.

[antelope]

Hawk,

I don't think anything you said contradicts anything I said. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that you should wait 4 hours with a blue veiner before taking any action to promote deflation. My main point was to learn how to manage the dosage so as to avoid putting more drugs into your system, esp one that is not advised for so many of us. I still think that taking drugs to get hard and then taking drugs to get soft is simply not a good regimen.

G