Is anyone here injecting testosterone?

[Flavio]

Interesting thread!

I'm not a doctor, I never tried TRT and I know very little about hormones but I would like to share a couple of thoughts on this.

We all agree that the endocrine system is an extremely complex, delicate structure. Not messing with your hormones is a very sensible thing.

And we all agree that testosterone plays an important role in sexual function.

I do not think, however, (and my friend Simbarn is going to butcher me for saying this) that testosterone plays an essential role, i.e. there may be other alternatives.

Testosterone is a precursor to NO, so what if there are other ways to increase your NO levels?

I speak from personal experience: my T levels are and always have been ridiculously low but at the age of 44, that doesn't stop me from having excellent erections (with some help from THE RIGHT oral meds).

I've been taking antiandrogens for hair loss for decades: I started taking Proscar more than 20 years ago, I'm currently on avodart. Yes, I agree that these drugs are not for everyone but today I have great hair and great erections, DHT is a hormone I don't miss at all.

[LeRoastBeef]

Well that was a waste of time.
Crack on lad.
Frazzle frazzle.

[Simbarn]

Interesting thread!

I'm not a doctor, I never tried TRT and I know very little about hormones but I would like to share a couple of thoughts on this.

We all agree that the endocrine system is an extremely complex, delicate structure. Not messing with your hormones is a very sensible thing.

And we all agree that testosterone plays an important role in sexual function.

I do not think, however, (and my friend Simbarn is going to butcher me for saying this) that testosterone plays an essential role, i.e. there may be other alternatives.

Testosterone is a precursor to NO, so what if there are other ways to increase your NO levels?

I speak from personal experience: my T levels are and always have been ridiculously low but at the age of 44, that doesn't stop me from having excellent erections (with some help from THE RIGHT oral meds).

I've been taking antiandrogens for hair loss for decades: I started taking Proscar more than 20 years ago, I'm currently on avodart. Yes, I agree that these drugs are not for everyone but today I have great hair and great erections, DHT is a hormone I don't miss at all.

Flavio, I would not like to butcher you. Not my style.
Besides, I do like you.

I will say this however, If someone was to creep into your room one night and quietly cut off both your testicles in your sleep, with the appropriate anesthetic so you wouldn’t wake up ,
I am quite sure in a few weeks you would be posting on Frank talk asking: (sorry this does sound a lot like butchering doesn’t it!)

“My libido seems to have disappeared,
My night time erections are no longer evident,
I don’t seem to have much sexual sensation in my penis anymore,
My erection pills are not working very well,
I am feeling tired and have lost much of my drive.
My penis looks smaller and shriveled when flaccid.
My testicles are missing, do you think that has something to do with it?”

You used the word “essential”. Testosterone is about as essential to male sexual function as it gets. Ask a eunuch how sexual they feel.
There are no “alternatives’ for this as you suggest. It is quite clear now that testosterone maintains the health of the erectile tissues. It is therefore essential.

You mention that your T levels are “ridiculously low”, however your erections are great with the use of the high doses of a number of drugs you take before sex.
Everyone’s sensitivity for the amount of T they need in order to function adequately in a sexual manner is different. Some men are quite ok with a T level of 300-400 ng/dl, others would be feeling the effect of low T with this. It’s all programmed into your genetics.

It could be that you just have a low level and that is ok for your body to still function adequately, but maybe not optimally.

Purporting that your body does not need DHT is IMO ignoring millions of years of our evolution. The fact our bodies still convert a particular amount of T into DHT past puberty is reason enough to believe it does this for a very time honoured reason.
You have just been lucky thus far to have not noticed the severe ill effects of 5 alpha reductase drugs. As you know many are not.
What our bodies are very good at doing is compensating and adapting to changes. A car engine for example cannot do this, if you remove something from the engine then generally the engine will just stop working. Our bodies are so highly developed that they can to a point adjust and compensate for the lack of something.
This however, does not mean it is good for the body. It can in the long-term, actually be quite harmful, as for example is the slow loss of nitric oxide in our bodies due to lifestyle and diet and the slow insidious effect this has on the vascular system. As I have said previously, testosterone mediates much of its effects on the body through DHT. This knowledge should be enough to not use these drugs.

It is quite possible that your low T level may be associated with the long term use of Finasteride, and to some extent your continued erectile difficulties, even though you consider them to be solely psychogenic.
For example, many of the forms of psychogenic erectile difficulties IMO are actually most likely caused by physiological changes in the penis, which make it less likely to be able to withstand negative thoughts from the mind. A small percentage of loss of smooth muscle in the penis could do this. The penis may perform ok when someone is by themselves and not stressed as the quantity of smooth muscle present in the penis is capable of maintaining an erection satisfactorily for masturbation. However, if we throw in performance anxiety when the same individual tries to have sex which therefore puts a lot more demand on the body, adrenalin rises; the amount of healthy smooth muscle present in the penis is not sufficient to be able to overcome the inhibitory mechanism. To put it simply the penis is not robust enough to overcome the negative psychogenic influence.
It is very likely that there are some physiological changes in your penis from 20 years of use of Finasteride. Science is discovering this now and it is quite evident in animal studies.

I will never condone the use of these drugs for cosmetic use. I strongly urge any young men out there considering the use of Finasteride and the like for hair loss, to not.

[Flavio]

[...] the amount of healthy smooth muscle present in the penis is not sufficient to be able to overcome the inhibitory mechanism. [...]

Fascinating views, as always.

So, smooth muscle in the penis also plays an important role, no controversy here. Is there a way we can accurately assess the amount and quality of smooth muscle in the penis? Maybe a doppler test?

I read somewhere that we only need DHT during our growth years, I have no idea if this is true or not.

[notaes]

My wife is a nurse and she gives me injections of testosterone each week. I use to get them every two weeks but dividing dosage and getting them weekly help keep things on an even keel. This seems to work very well and the injections seem to be the most cost effective way to get testosterone in the body. It works well for me.

[Simbarn]

[...] the amount of healthy smooth muscle present in the penis is not sufficient to be able to overcome the inhibitory mechanism. [...]

Fascinating views, as always.

So, smooth muscle in the penis also plays an important role, no controversy here. Is there a way we can accurately assess the amount and quality of smooth muscle in the penis? Maybe a doppler test?

I read somewhere that we only need DHT during our growth years, I have no idea if this is true or not.

I am not aware of any tests that show smooth muscle quantity that we can have whilst alive! Smooth muscle plays more than an important role, it is what enables your penis to get an erection, it plays a primary role!
It lines all your arteries and the trabecula in the spaces that expand in the penis, it constricts and relaxes as required. When it is damaged, it gets replaced by what is called collagen deposition. Collagen forms in its place and this becomes a non compliant structure that no longer responds to relaxation as this is not a muscle. This is penile fibrosis.

DHT is required all our lives for the simple reason that we convert some of our testosterone into DHT past the growth years. We do not manufacture any hormone in our body for no reason!
Recent study's are showing that men with a higher DHT level are less likely to die from prostate cancer. Exactly the opposite of what was previously thought. DHT may actually have a protective role against prostate cancer.

We are still learning much about what these hormones do in the body. This is why I am so against Propecia. Finasteride has been shown in animal studies to promote penile fibrosis.

[Flavio]

[...]

I am not aware of any tests that show smooth muscle quantity that we can have whilst alive! [...]

What about your experience with alpha blockers, have you tried any? Which one seemed to work best for you?

You may want to look into udenafil, as well. Because of its long half-life, there are studies that recommend its daily use, just like Cialis.

[Fonzie]

Loved the post. I appreciate you taking the time to write it.

quote="LeRoastBeef"]I'm being direct here because I don't want to see a young man be as stupid as I was, the drugs are not worth it.

One cycle can absolutely put your system out of action for evermore. It's dangerous to give the impression that you are guaranteed to get away with one cycle.

Testosterone is a steroid. Everyone that runs a stack will have test in there as a base, they may stack others on top, but test will be present.
Generally your first cycle will just be test alone, you're simply taking much more than you would produce naturally. The idea that taking excessive testosterone alone does not count as anabolic steroid use is unjust, that is literally what you are doing.

One cycle of Steroid use (limited to excess test alone) does result in permanent increases in myonuclei, these are not lost upon muscle atrophy. The more you have the greater the rate of transcription, the faster you will build muscle in future, even years later. From one cycle, of test only.

You may get away with the abuse, I used test, tren, deca, dianabol and equipoise in my time, I didn't really get away with it, there has been testicular atrophy, I may struggle to concieve. That was with using all the auxiliary drugs required to keep things working as much as possible, along with PCT. I was religious in my use.

There is no safe way to abuse steroids, one cycle can do you in, stay way if you're young.
I understand the appeal, they work well, I slept with more women in the time I was on the gear than all the years preceding. Women love muscles, it's like I was no longer invisible. It's still not worth it. The rest of your life can be ruined for a few shallow girls in your bed. Which gets old pretty quick.

Simbarn, did you use steroids in the past? How did it go for you?
Have you thought about an implant eventually for your ED?[/quote]

[Simbarn]

[...]

I am not aware of any tests that show smooth muscle quantity that we can have whilst alive! [...]

What about your experience with alpha blockers, have you tried any? Which one seemed to work best for you?

You may want to look into udenafil, as well. Because of its long half-life, there are studies that recommend its daily use, just like Cialis.

I have a box of Alfuzosin, which I have not tried as yet. I am going to stop the Tadalfil for a few days first, when I decide to try it. I was concerned about blood pressure drop when first starting an A1 blocker. Apparently the effects of low pressure decrease in a day or so after starting these drugs. Alfuzosin is supposed to have less of this issue due to its slower absorption.
What is the half life of Udenafil? I am interested as you report such low side effects with a reasonably high dose of this PDE5 inhibitor. I get some sides with just 5mgs of Cialis.

[Flavio]

[...] What is the half life of Udenafil? I am interested as you report such low side effects with a reasonably high dose of this PDE5 inhibitor. I get some sides with just 5mgs of Cialis.

Udenafil has fairly rapid onset of action (peak plasma concentration after 1 to 1.5 hours), and has long duration of action (plasma half-life of 11 to 13 hours).

I used it again today with oral phentolamine and there was some dizziness but perfectly tolerable. I'm convinced it's the Chinese phentolamine that is not top quality, I didn't experience any side effects with my previous brand (Vigamed, from Brazil).