Ready, get set, go?

[Dave52]

I’m the one that started this thread down the wrong path. If possible I would like to set it straight. Larry your heart is in the right place . If I misunderstood your statement I take it back . We are all here for the same reason trying to navigate through this sea of challenges looking for answers to questions that we never dreamed of. Any information that is received here should always be weighed and considered as someone else’s opinion or experience. I disagreed with Larry’s statement about Doctors. Was my interpretation right or wrong at the time I believed I was right and if I look at it from a different angle my interpretation could be different. A choice of words strung together does not always reflect the true meaning of what was the intention of the statement.
Dave

[Leek65]

I’m the one that started this thread down the wrong path. If possible I would like to set it straight. Larry your heart is in the right place . If I misunderstood your statement I take it back . We are all here for the same reason trying to navigate through this sea of challenges looking for answers to questions that we never dreamed of. Any information that is received here should always be weighed and considered as someone else’s opinion or experience. I disagreed with Larry’s statement about Doctors. Was my interpretation right or wrong at the time I believed I was right and if I look at it from a different angle my interpretation could be different. A choice of words strung together does not always reflect the true meaning of what was the intention of the statement.
Dave

I want to say I totally agree that Larry's heart is in the right place. We need to be able to express divergent opinions here. Read through a whole thread and keep in mind that we may disagree with opinions expressed but this forum is called "Frank Talk" for a reason. I probably disagree with everyone here on some issue but we all share the same goal - taking ED out of the closet and giving us sufferers a good resource where we can let our hair down. Keep up the good work Larry.

[Donnie1954]

Great job Larry. Keep up the good work. I am so thankful for you and your candidness concerning your own journey. You are an inspiration to all of us.
donnie1954@mail.com

[navy6587]

Robo/ Larry/ Happy/ Dave/ Leek/ Donnie...as a relatively new member, I am very glad to see that a new calm has settled over FT!! I am always dismayed by rancor in the group and have not butted in when the issue/ details are not pertinent to me personally. I totally understand that ED, its debilitating effects and its causes are as many and varied as there are men struggling with it. And, when implantation is the decided upon remedy, that man's life and body will be forever changed...never to be 'undone'. It's a very serious path we take and each of us would love to time travel 6 months or a year post-op to jump over whatever surgical results and pain we must endure to 'get on with our lives'. However, reality is not as kind as that.

Each of us is different and may respond differently to surgery because of a myriad of considerations...already well documented in this site. What (fill in your choice of subjects) works for one man may or may not work for another. Depending upon the surgeon, the follow-on instructions may change. So, when those of you offer experience, guidance, options, choices, or recommendations to a newbie or just a guy with questions, IMHO each of those posts should come with an automatic disclaimer: THIS WORKED FOR ME BUT IT MIGHT NOT WORK FOR YOU. In my situation, that's how I've approached any 'wise words' from you all. Matter of fact, my surgery is only scheduled to take place next week (11/8), so I'm only speaking about what I've read or researched...not what I've experienced.

But, as a new guy with a great deal of respect for you who are 'on the other side', I do understand one aspect of implantation that is crystal clear. We must respect each other! Guys like me come to this site in most cases by accident and want help...not a pissing contest among those to whom I look for guidance and information. It's easy to say "this surgeon is best", "use a VED before surgery", "cycle early and often". etc. What if you're not equipped to travel to NYC or Coral Gables? I'm not, so I'm looking here in Richmond, Virginia. Does that mean I'm not going to receive a quality procedure? I'm having a penoscrotal procedure...should I have chosen infrapubic with Paul Perito? I don't mind general anesthetic...does that mean I should x-out Dr. Eid? Each man who already has had the procedure will think his is the best or the worst depending upon outcome. Which high volume implanter has been implanted himself? Does that mean that if your surgeon is a woman, she should be nixed? What poor choices we make when we let facts become clouded by innuendo, bum dope, and personal biases!

Our brotherhood is an important one to the newly diagnosed, the long-term sufferer, or the emotionally distraught husband who cries because he can't make love to his wife anymore (me...). We OWE him our best behavior, our honest recommendations and guidance based ONLY on the questioner's individual situation. There may be urological surgeons among our members or lurkers but, for the most part, we are laymen who have had a procedure with which we plan to resume as much of a normal life as we have remaining on this planet. We have no time to waste on sniping, name calling, put-downs, or other contrived absolutes.

I am proud of being a member of FT!! I am simultaneously excited and anxious about next week. I would like to come back to this site and know that we all do our best for each other. We have precious few years for 'do overs'.

I love all you guys!

Edd

[Dave52]

Robo/ Larry/ Happy/ Dave/ Leek/ Donnie...as a relatively new member, I am very glad to see that a new calm has settled over FT!! I am always dismayed by rancor in the group and have not butted in when the issue/ details are not pertinent to me personally. I totally understand that ED, its debilitating effects and its causes are as many and varied as there are men struggling with it. And, when implantation is the decided upon remedy, that man's life and body will be forever changed...never to be 'undone'. It's a very serious path we take and each of us would love to time travel 6 months or a year post-op to jump over whatever surgical results and pain we must endure to 'get on with our lives'. However, reality is not as kind as that.

Each of us is different and may respond differently to surgery because of a myriad of considerations...already well documented in this site. What (fill in your choice of subjects) works for one man may or may not work for another. Depending upon the surgeon, the follow-on instructions may change. So, when those of you offer experience, guidance, options, choices, or recommendations to a newbie or just a guy with questions, IMHO each of those posts should come with an automatic disclaimer: THIS WORKED FOR ME BUT IT MIGHT NOT WORK FOR YOU. In my situation, that's how I've approached any 'wise words' from you all. Matter of fact, my surgery is only scheduled to take place next week (11/8), so I'm only speaking about what I've read or researched...not what I've experienced.

But, as a new guy with a great deal of respect for you who are 'on the other side', I do understand one aspect of implantation that is crystal clear. We must respect each other! Guys like me come to this site in most cases by accident and want help...not a pissing contest among those to whom I look for guidance and information. It's easy to say "this surgeon is best", "use a VED before surgery", "cycle early and often". etc. What if you're not equipped to travel to NYC or Coral Gables? I'm not, so I'm looking here in Richmond, Virginia. Does that mean I'm not going to receive a quality procedure? I'm having a penoscrotal procedure...should I have chosen infrapubic with Paul Perito? I don't mind general anesthetic...does that mean I should x-out Dr. Eid? Each man who already has had the procedure will think his is the best or the worst depending upon outcome. Which high volume implanter has been implanted himself? Does that mean that if your surgeon is a woman, she should be nixed? What poor choices we make when we let facts become clouded by innuendo, bum dope, and personal biases!

Our brotherhood is an important one to the newly diagnosed, the long-term sufferer, or the emotionally distraught husband who cries because he can't make love to his wife anymore (me...). We OWE him our best behavior, our honest recommendations and guidance based ONLY on the questioner's individual situation. There may be urological surgeons among our members or lurkers but, for the most part, we are laymen who have had a procedure with which we plan to resume as much of a normal life as we have remaining on this planet. We have no time to waste on sniping, name calling, put-downs, or other contrived absolutes.

I am proud of being a member of FT!! I am simultaneously excited and anxious about next week. I would like to come back to this site and know that we all do our best for each other. We have precious few years for 'do overs'.

I love all you guys!

Edd

Navy
Very well said. I’m only 13 days before you on this path and I will say if we could turn up the clock we sure would but that’s not possible. One week from today you will have crossed to the other side. The first two or three days take more time than they should but then it becomes a one day at a time thing and before you know it the you’ll fall into a new routine. Today is day 8 I just realized that the bruising is gone as is most of the swelling I haven’t had a pain pill for two days it’s moving in the right direction. I wish you the best I hope that your recovery is as uneventful as possible
Cheers
Dave

[DougAnd]

Guys I use VED with my implant because I know my body have taken care of it for 66 years and have experimented with VED both before and after implants. BUT!!!! That is me and you are you. No one not even me would suggest going against any of their doctor's orders. I know that Larry's doctor approves the prudent usage of VED and their are studies to support it. But Larry never suggested anyone go against their docs orders and neither do I. Now I do suggest that you dump some ancient behind the times uro if you don't agree with him. Let me be very clear. I would have gone to Eid or Kramer or Kata or Carrion in a heart beat before I went to my guys. But after I got my implant if they did not agree with me using a VED I would have dropped them like a hot potato and found someone who was qualified to instruct me on the safe and beneficial usage of VED therapy. I really don't care who a doctor is or thinks he is when he is wrong he is wrong. But if he is your doctor FOLLOW HIM EXACTLY. Period! Until you leave him in the dust he is your doctor and if you have problems who will you go to? I think my first uro would probably cover for me. We have a very good relationship and always will. Great guy!
This is just my opinion. Why would you be mad at anyone whose doctor advises the usage of VED? If he's not your doctor what's your point?

[Larry10625]

Guys I use VED with my implant because I know my body have taken care of it for 66 years and have experimented with VED both before and after implants. BUT!!!! That is me and you are you. No one not even me would suggest going against any of their doctor's orders. I know that Larry's doctor approves the prudent usage of VED and their are studies to support it. But Larry never suggested anyone go against their docs orders and neither do I. Now I do suggest that you dump some ancient behind the times uro if you don't agree with him. Let me be very clear. I would have gone to Eid or Kramer or Kata or Carrion in a heart beat before I went to my guys. But after I got my implant if they did not agree with me using a VED I would have dropped them like a hot potato and found someone who was qualified to instruct me on the safe and beneficial usage of VED therapy. I really don't care who a doctor is or thinks he is when he is wrong he is wrong. But if he is your doctor FOLLOW HIM EXACTLY. Period! Until you leave him in the dust he is your doctor and if you have problems who will you go to? I think my first uro would probably cover for me. We have a very good relationship and always will. Great guy!
This is just my opinion. Why would you be mad at anyone whose doctor advises the usage of VED? If he's not your doctor what's your point?

And there lies the problem with this specific topic. Some doctors say don't do it it will cause problems, etc. and others say no it won't... somebody is wrong. I will take the guy that has solid, scientifically studied data to support his views over the guy that says "because I'm the doctor and you're not"

Larry

[DaveKell]

I am a doctor in a certain health care field that is oft maligned for causing people to have pain post operatively. While I haven't personally experienced most of the things I do to my patients, I can say that after 25 years of practice that I consider myself an expert in both the procedure and the post operative course. If a doctor has done thousands of procedures, he/she knows the best post operative course because we have years of experience in seeing the outcomes of all of our patients, not just your one case. We have a vested interest in the best outcome for our patients because at a minimum our livelihood and reputation depend on it. And most doctors genuinely care about their patients. Every doctor is different, every patient is different. One cannot therefore take the anecdotal experience of one person or a few who are all different and have had different doctors and methods and then apply that to everyone as medical advice.
One can argue the relative competence of one doctor or another but to suggest that clearly recognized experts in the field are somehow not adequate as a source for post operative care and advice is not sound logic and is bad advice. Of course we can use brothers for support and advice but they are not experts in a general sense even though they may have become an "expert" with their own situation. Unfortunately, I am seeing a trend on this site where unwarranted advice and techniques are given that seem to go against medical advice. Look, we are all human, including your doctor. The absolute best doctor has bad days. We are dealing with a difficult and emotional condition and many men, including myself come to this site looking for advice. It should be taken seriously and not turned into a forum for cliques with dueling opinions and biases. Doctors are the experts but they aren't perfect and the truly outstanding experts should be respected. The key is who you choose to do your procedure. This site at its best can be an outstanding source to help guys pick competent expert doctors. Once you choose a doctor however, you should stick to their protocol pre and post-operatively because that is what has worked for them. Getting random advice from someone on the internet after the fact is not a good idea if it opposes what your doctor recommends.
Just my two cents...

I certainly take exception to your assertion that "I am a doctor in a certain health care field that is oft maligned for causing people to have pain post operatively. While I haven't personally experienced most of the things I do to my patients, I can say that after 25 years of practice that I consider myself an expert in both the procedure and the post operative course." I've had 18 major abdominal surgeries with four different surgeons. Out of the four, only one in my highly experienced estimation was anything approaching "an expert in...post operative course". The other three were outright dicks (a FT acceptable term) as far as post operative care. The pain they expected me to endure was unimaginable at times. I found it humorous when one of my surgeons who has become a good family friend broke her leg in a skiing accident. She suddenly was enlightened to why some patients requested multiple pain med refills. Another friend who is a doctor I played with in an orchestra told me doctors aren't adequately trained for pain management. I've endured that outcome, enough said.

"Doctors are the experts but they aren't perfect and the truly outstanding experts should be respected." What does this doublespeak even mean? Why the hell can't patients who are on the receiving end of doctor's handiwork be respected? Does an outstanding expert ever have "a bad day"? I've been on the receiving end of doctors with astronomically vaunted opinions of themselves. To be sure, I have respect for doctors as I have been taken off of a deathbed twice by doctors. I think your profession would largely be better served if your egos were checked at the door and you realized at times your patients can teach you something.

Lastly, "Getting random advice from someone on the internet after the fact is not a good idea if it opposes what your doctor recommends." Why? Because doctors are always the final authority? You can't tolerate being opposed? Wait, I know the answer to that because I've opposed a few of my surgeons and argued something counter to their authority. When I've spoken with other people who've had some of the same procedures I have I learned infinitely more than any doctor ever revealed. I'm currently debating whether to go through with a 9 hour surgery for rods in my lumbar spine. The neurosurgeon is a well trained expert at not answering my concerns. He reminds me of experienced politicians who never answer the questions posed to them but spout off agenda talking points. I've leaned all I wanted to know from 3 people who've had the surgery and now know a few questions the surgeon must answer for me before I make my final decision. If I followed your advice I wouldn't have this knowledge.

[DaveKell]

I’m the one that started this thread down the wrong path. If possible I would like to set it straight. Larry your heart is in the right place . If I misunderstood your statement I take it back . We are all here for the same reason trying to navigate through this sea of challenges looking for answers to questions that we never dreamed of. Any information that is received here should always be weighed and considered as someone else’s opinion or experience. I disagreed with Larry’s statement about Doctors. Was my interpretation right or wrong at the time I believed I was right and if I look at it from a different angle my interpretation could be different. A choice of words strung together does not always reflect the true meaning of what was the intention of the statement.
Dave

Don't take this the wrong way dude, but most of this thread adequately demonstrates my biggest problem with online discussions, that being people who are largely inept at reading for comprehension. I'm not saying this about you specifically right now, but entire derailed threads on countless forums I visit. I learned a long time ago to reread my comments before hitting the submit button. I'll admit I botch it occasionally, hell I might have awhile ago with my comments to a doctor on this forum. I never read any of the intent you ascribed to Larry's comments when I first read them. Of course there always remains the occasional entertainment value of following misunderstandings. What would internet forums be without them? Personally, I wouldn't have Larry's job here without exorbitant compensation in my bank account weekly. Think about it, having to be a mind reader for how a few thousand people are going to interpret your comments. No thanks, but THANK YOU LARRY!

[Larry10625]

I’m the one that started this thread down the wrong path. If possible I would like to set it straight. Larry your heart is in the right place . If I misunderstood your statement I take it back . We are all here for the same reason trying to navigate through this sea of challenges looking for answers to questions that we never dreamed of. Any information that is received here should always be weighed and considered as someone else’s opinion or experience. I disagreed with Larry’s statement about Doctors. Was my interpretation right or wrong at the time I believed I was right and if I look at it from a different angle my interpretation could be different. A choice of words strung together does not always reflect the true meaning of what was the intention of the statement.
Dave

Don't take this the wrong way dude, but most of this thread adequately demonstrates my biggest problem with online discussions, that being people who are largely inept at reading for comprehension. I'm not saying this about you specifically right now, but entire derailed threads on countless forums I visit. I learned a long time ago to reread my comments before hitting the submit button. I'll admit I botch it occasionally, hell I might have awhile ago with my comments to a doctor on this forum. I never read any of the intent you ascribed to Larry's comments when I first read them. Of course there always remains the occasional entertainment value of following misunderstandings. What would internet forums be without them? Personally, I wouldn't have Larry's job here without exorbitant compensation in my bank account weekly. Think about it, having to be a mind reader for how a few thousand people are going to interpret your comments. No thanks, but THANK YOU LARRY!

My pleasure Dave... When I tell people that the Moderators job is volunteer, it us usually recommended that I go see a shrink. Since my back injury in 2011 I can't do anything except for my military career because I am an officer and my job entails directing people to do, not doing myself. Frank Talk is usually the only thing that keeps me sane, except for the times when some members of Frank Talk drive me insane. I don't expect everybody to agree with my comments or decisions to warn users or lock topics or even recommend people or posts get deleted. I don't hate or even dislike anyone on here... I do dislike some of the comments that are directed at me and I even get angry at some of them. I understand that sometimes people have a bad day and I might be on the receiving end but, when it continues, then I take action. The only thing I have ever asked is that if someone wants to blast me for something, have the decency to do it in a PM. Look at it this way... there is 6 pages of comments on here regarding this post and I'm not even sure the creator's questions were answered but John Q Public can, and do, read every word of it. When I need to chew someone out I do it in a PM. When I warn someone I do it and say nothing. Yes, the members will see that a member is warned but that's the software, not me. I am not requesting anything I don't do myself but I will not tolerate any member disrespecting another member, including me. You guys saved my mental health back when I was going through my problems and for that, I am grateful. That's how and why I became the Moderator. I do not have a list of rules for my position, Paul and I talk about them as we go along but this is NOT run the way other sites are. I want to publically thank all of you who have sent posts of support. I appreciate you and apparently, you appreciate me. Everybody have a great day.

Larry