VED for growth

[Zenmasterdj]

Hi guys
I've seen a few guys(and doctors) talk about VED use after surgery for help with gaining back size etc.

Anyone know where there are instructions?


Use it while inflated or not?

Use it for how long?

Is this as part of the exercises or something different?

Anything we need to be careful of (too much or too little pressure from the VED?)?

Again, I truly appreciate the help on this forum. Doctor doesn't tell you much. Mine is very non committal unless I probe him with deep questions.

I feel like I lost a lot and I want to try to get back what I can, as fast as I can.

Thanks in advance

[aussiePeyronies]

Dr Clavell wasn't committed? He seems to have a great reputation on the forums.

Regarding VED, most people inflate to max, then enter the chamber, some pump up to 5-7hg (best to have a VED with a gauge), and leave it for ten minutes. Some, pump up to 5-7hg and leave for 20s, deflate (the VED, not the implant) and pump again then hold, and repeat process for 10-15m.

Just be very careful, and if using a VED without a gauge, do not pump too much, with titans, the weak area is the tubing.

Be good if more experienced members can chime in with their VED routines and experiences, I think we could all benefit from them.

J

[newbie443]

I only tried VED use once after surgery and it caused me a lot of pain so I did not ever try it again. This is not something that has a lot of research on it. Basic VED rules do apply though. Even low vacuum applied too fast can cause damage. The supper fine blood vessels in the penis cannot move blood as fast as the VED CAN and low vacuum too fast will rupture blood vessels. So go slow if you use VED for any reason. The only study I know that was done post op on VED use was a very small group of men (under 50) that was hand picked and were all implanted with LGX devises. They also had early activation (mean 8 days) which has already been shown to prevent size loss from surgery. And a well known Florida doctor that in the past has been a strong supporter of the Titan and even said AMS devices were bad even had his name on this study. https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/d88 ... action.pdf I have not seen a study done with a Coloplast device. This really needs more research done. Not sure if or any special steps were taken in surgery for this. Or even what surgical approach was used. It may be in the study I just either missed it or don't remember it.

From the reports I have read on this site my understanding is that VED us post op will accelerate the size gain post op. Cycling will get you the same results only takes longer. That is just my understanding of this and I have read no study to confirm or disprove it.

Bottom line is VED use can cause damage. As your doctor and if your doctor does not instruct you on how to do this then you will be proceeding at your own risk. Ask yourself if it is worth another surgery to replace a broken device or damage to the blood vessels in your penis.

[2435tjklAS]

I only tried VED use once after surgery and it caused me a lot of pain so I did not ever try it again. This is not something that has a lot of research on it.

What? There's mountains upon mountains of legitimate medical research on the efficacy of VEDs to treat ED dating back over four decades. This is my Zotero collection of only the sources I have:



Some about implants specifically. Some about VEDs AND implants. Some about only VEDs. All of them support each other real data and real proof that VEDs are medical devices that will improve penile health, with no complications being reported.

With all due respect your advice is extremely outdated.

OP, I think my original post here on the first page provides all the medical evidence you need that without some incredibly unusual condition you can use a VED safety and it will have a positive effect, both before and after implant. This has been proven over and over again, and one of the sources points out that it's likely that Viagra's introduction and men being lazy and relying on pills is what made them less popular.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18561&p=169469#p169469

The last page also has my last comment which tells my story of how I got into VED usage, and which ones I'd recommend.

About most of your questions: it's a freaking penis pump. Your dick can take it. I use mine flaccid. And while pumped. Sometimes for hours. Sometimes for 15 minutes. Sometimes who knows. I don't know how men developed the completely irrational fear that their dicks is some cherished organ that can't stand a beating just like the rest of your body can.

[newbie443]

Yes a lot of studies and information about VED and stretching use before surgery. And that I do recommend. However the use of VED after IPP surgery is a different thing. A single study with less than 50 hand picked men and short term observation is not the same as the preop studies by many different sources. Add the use of a single device by one manufacture and this is very limited data to for men to use this.

Yes VED pre op is a good thing. Post op is something that has limited research on effect on the different devices and on men with different medical conditions. Using pre op VED use information to say post op VED use is safe and should be done by everyone is wrong. These are 2 very different things. You want to risk damage to yourself and your device then that is your choice. I do not doubt that some men have had success with VED use post op. It is still unknown if that has any long term damage to either the man or the device. As I said I only tried this once and the pain was so bad with just very low vacuum applied very slowly that I could not do this and never tried again.

If you have any long tern study of VED use POST OP I would like to see it. As I said the only study done on post op VED use was the one I linked to. Pre op studies are good for encouraging men to use VED pre op but post op is of course different in that you have the device inside you.

[2435tjklAS]

Yes a lot of studies and information about VED and stretching use before surgery. And that I do recommend. However the use of VED after IPP surgery is a different thing. A single study with less than 50 hand picked men and short term observation is not the same as the preop studies by many different sources. Add the use of a single device by one manufacture and this is very limited data to for men to use this.

I don't understand why you say the Antonini study from 2016 (good god that was 7 years ago) is the only one about post-op VED use. It is not. I like my comments in this post convincing "Injustright" to use a VED: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=20121

(Also check my last comment on the last page. )

I cite Kim et al. (2019), Canguven et al (2017), Habous et al. (2019), Christine et al. (no date), Sellers (2013), Borges (2006), Levine (2011), Augusto Negro (2016) sources, all specifically about VED usage AFTER an implant. It has also been my personal experience as well as many other men on these forums and elsewhere that VEDs have had a positive effect with zero complications.

You cannot provide a single one that tells you not to use them, can you?

Here are some important ones:

Remember when I made the post about finding a study proving men who lost size post-implant from not exercising it sufficiently can actually still get back their size? viewtopic.php?f=6&t=20117&p=185488#p185488

This is a GREAT title: "Revision of Penile Prosthesis Surgery after Use of Penile Traction Therapy to Increase Erect Penile Length: Case Report and Review of the Literature"

The entire point of the research is for men who have gotten a VED 6 years ago and how he can still recover any lost sizes to start VED use for 1 year. First I will acknowledge actually not until right now did I notice that he doesn't specify using one after getting an implant - but if you can easily and effectively use one 6 years after your first implant, doesn't that kind of count?

It stood out to me and I thought about and didn't understand this line in the study: "...as well as 8 hours of penile traction therapy daily for 8 months." I thought, what? 8 hours of VED use? I wanted to make sure:


^That right there is Dr. Lipshultz the Chief, Division of Male Reproductive Medicine & Surgery Department of Urology, Baylor College of Medicine telling men to who have implants that they can use VED devices for 8 hours a day. I don't really get it, and someone told me it might be at night while sleeping, but the point is VEDs aren't going to break anything if doctors are telling them to use these devices for that long.

I also really like this title by Dr. Wang: "Is There Still a Role for Vacuum Erection Devices in Contemporary Sexual Medicine?" Why does a 2022 study ask if there's still a role of VEDs? I attached the study. He also conservatively describes some of the research here



First I interpret his writing here as saying YES there is a role: "Introduced for erectile dysfunction (ED) nearly 150 years ago, cleared by U.S. Food and Drug Administration in 1982 and adopted by American Urological Association (AUA) in 1996 as a standard of care.¹ Significant amount of clinic evidence has proven the effectiveness of VED for ED since the early 1980s."

I'm surprised he missed so many other relevant studies, and I don't really know why, but I'm guessing the reason is possibly the same as why doctors didn't give many of you instructions to be aggressive: because they were worried you'd hurt your dick and blame them.

Yes VED pre op is a good thing. Post op is something that has limited research on effect on the different devices and on men with different medical conditions. Using pre op VED use information to say post op VED use is safe and should be done by everyone is wrong. These are 2 very different things. You want to risk damage to yourself and your device then that is your choice. I do not doubt that some men have had success with VED use post op. It is still unknown if that has any long term damage to either the man or the device. As I said I only tried this once and the pain was so bad with just very low vacuum applied very slowly that I could not do this and never tried again.

If you have any long tern study of VED use POST OP I would like to see it. As I said the only study done on post op VED use was the one I linked to. Pre op studies are good for encoraging men to use VED pre op but post op is of course different in that you have the device inside you.

Do the ones I cited above count? Do you need more? Also, can you provide me with a single study, or really any credible source that isn't dudes saying it online somewhere, that a VED has ever caused any of those problems you mentioned?

An important personal note: just yesterday I had an appointment with the nurse practitioner at urology who is in charge of making sure my InsterStim works well. You can google what those are, cliffs is because of my head injury my brain and my bladder do not communicate very well. If you care about the details of my urinary problems and what the device does for me I shared them a while ago in this post (and I wanna share how I'll always be mad Dr. Clark never thought over 4 years of giving me a referral to a urologist, jesus fucking christ).: viewtopic.php?t=20452&start=10

Anyway, at that appointment, she had told me earlier about how some men stay on program 1 (there are 6) and never want to change the InterStim. I asked if she knew why, and she said they think the InterStim is working pretty well and it doesn't need to change. But these men don't even know that can work significantly better and I believe exactly what is holding many of them back is they're giant pussies when it comes to their dicks. The InterStim is a strange device, it delivers these pules of different amplitudes right around my balls. It can be very uncomfortable. But if you use it like the medical research tells you to, you'll get better.

That's a fact I know about a lot of men. I have heard many stories of men with serious urinary or other problems related to their penis, and they simply won't even tell their primary care doctor. So many men can't do it. Their dick gets 100% privacy, and they're unwilling to even acknowledge they have problems. I suppose it's an incredibly weird societal thing, or something, but if you're one of these men, quit being an idiot. Sharing/showing/talking about your dick with doctors is never a problem. Get help.

If there was one thing I can thank the Penis Enlargement (PE) retards for teaching me, it's that your dick is capable of handling a whole lot. Make sure you turn on the sound for this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/ ... for_yours/

And according to them, that shit isn't even dangerous!!

Well I figured if they can do that, I was happy to be aggressive with my Bathmate after receiving it:

This pic is in my imgur size recovery album. I wrote: "2022-04-10: I discover if you pump the Bathmate to max pressure for a minute or two, remove it, refill it with water, and immediately do it again, and then again, and again, this happens. It's probably dangerous, lol."

But you know what? Nothing broke.

(Oh the imgur album is not my imagechest album because you can google that too and learn imgur banned all porn, removing all my dick pics! )

Anyway, sorry if this was way too long for some readers. I don't know what else to remove.

[azmike]

I enjoy your posts. One suggestion-perhaps the Dr was not referring to VED as being a traction device when he recommended up to 8 hours of penile traction. He may have been referring to penile extenders such as Phallosan, Restorex etc. Many users of those devices use them for up to 8 hrs per day or more. On PE forums VED are not commonly considered traction devices. Hope this helps.

[newbie443]

It seems that you and I are looking at published information and understanding them way different. Do a search on problems with VED use. Look for and you will find that VED use for sex with construction rings is limited to 3 times a week for 20-30 minutes sessions. This is because blood is trapped in the penis and no new oxygenated blood is supplied to the penis tissue. I see no difference in this and maintaining vacuum enough to create an erection in the VED tube for long periods of time. You will also find damage from men applying vacuum too fast and causing blood vessels to rupture. Can and do men use VED for sex? Yes but care needs to be taken and damage can be caused. This is why Dr. Eid, my original doctor, and others are not recommending VED use before surgery. Men have a tendency to over do thinking if a little is good more is better and they can and have caused damage. The same with manual and mechanical traction. Care needs to be taken with VED use and this is well documented if you or anyone else will just look. There are clinical studies that do show SAFE VED use pre op resulting in recovery of lost size. For this reason I did use VED and manual stretching prior to surgery and I think it did help,

Show me an actual clinical study with a large group of men using all the different IPP's. And a reasonable number of men using VED and another reasonable group not using VED. And the study covering many years and tracking device failures, infection rates and other complications. Can men taking proper care have results with VED use post op? Yes I think they can. The question is does this increase infection rates and other complications, decrease device life, and finally does the end results differ from cycling alone. From what I understand and as I posted it seems to me that VED use post op gets men back recoverable size quicker than cycling alone. Until a proper study is done there is no way to tell if the end results will result in more recoverable size for VED use or not. Men have recovered pre op size and even more with cycling alone. And have been shown to receive larger devices with revisions years after the first implant. There may be a study in the works for this. But maybe not. The limited warranty by the device manufacturer may also need to be considered.

It is just too early with men using this to understand this completely. What does your doctor say about VED use post op? If your doctor having treated you, and knowing you better than a doctor who has never seen or talked to you says you can use VED post op then you might want to try it. But there have been treatments like this before that several years down the road have problems occur that end the treatments completely. So like anything there is a risk.

To say all men should use VED post op is a bit extreme I think. As men are different and take longer to heal and have different surgical approaches by different doctors and different amounts of work done to be able to implant a IPP device.

So I will repeat please show me a clinical study on VED use post op. Should be easy for you if you have found one or more. Not just a paper reporting on new treatments. But an actual clinical study. As the only one I have found is This one that I posted earlier and that seems to cause more questions for me than provides answers. I will go over that in a separate post.

https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/d88 ... action.pdf

[newbie443]

To explain my point of view on the use of VED post implant I have only found one clinical study on this. I would like to read more if anyone has a link to them. Some seem to think that VED use should be done by all men. This study though gives some big questions for that as I read it. This is the study: https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/d88 ... action.pdf

The first thing that find troubling is the small number of men. There were 106 men to start with. But 32 were excluded.

Exclusion criteria included: previous pelvic surgery and/
or oncologic pelvic treatment, previous penile surgery
(including previous IPP and/or penile lengthening surgery),
penile curvature or deformity defined as a single or multiple
palpable plaques confirmed via penile ultrasonography
studies.

So none of the men had detectable plaque or curvature. All the men were implanted with the AMS LGX device, No Coloplast, Rigicon or any other make of device or even a 700 CX. All were implanted using a minimal evasive infrapubic surgery. All had early activation (mean of 8 days) which has been shown to reduce size loss in this study: https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... prosthesis This is another small group study but at least you had 2 groups to compare to. The VED use post op study only compares to pre op stretch test. How many men remember the pre op stretch test that was an underestimate. There was not a second group that used cycling only to compare to. Men in this clinical study were only tracked for 48 weeks. No information was included on infection, device failures, or other complications. Men were instructed on VED use and were ordered to use the VED twice a day for 5 minutes starting 3 weeks post op for 12 weeks.

With no second group that did not use a VED how can we know if VED use was any different than just cycling alone? What about men with plaque or curvatures? Should they not use VED post op? Should only men with LGX devices use VED post op? Should only men with infrapubic minimal evasive surgery use VED post op.

One thing to point out is that the men were to only use the VED for 5 minutes twice a day for just 12 weeks starting 3 weeks after surgery and aprox. 2 weeks after they were activated.

This is from the post op VED clinical study:

In this prospective study our patients underwent AMS™
LGX 700® IPP placement and additionally used a VED as
an adjuvant therapy in the early postoperative period to
stretch the tunica albuginea. The goal of this additional
treatment was to prevent the pseudo-capsule “coffin effect”
and to maximize length and girth outcomes.

What if your doctor does not activate you until 6 or 8 weeks or longer. Wouldn't the pseudo-capsule already be formed?

The infection rate for reoperations is higher because the biofilm that surrounds the device components (cylinders, pump, reservoir, and tubing) in some men contain large amounts of bacteria. When I had my repair my doctor took cultures of this biofilm to check for and identify any bacteria. My cultures came back clean but had there been bacteria I would have been given additional meds to target the bacteria that was identified. Can VED use post op then increase infection rate by damaging the biofilm and permitting bacteria to leak from the biofilm in men who have plaque?

I have read a number of threads where men have used VED post op with good results. From the threads I read I felt that VED use post op accelerated size gains. In other words the mans size reached maximum in weeks instead of months. As I said I really wish there was a better clinical study on this to help us out. I am not recommending to use or not to use a VED post op. Just saying to do your research and talk to your doctor and decide what is best for you.

[Gt1956]

I had my 3 month post op exam today. Well actually 3 1/2 months due to scheduling issues. I had this very discussion with my dr. I even think that he brought up the subject. He says a ved post surgery is ok. All basic rules apply as to pressure limits. Absolutely no rings.
Since newbie443 & I have both commented on the length grow possibilities of the implants in the one study where they were inflated to 20 psi. I asked if men can generate 20 psi using the pumps. He claimed that most men can only get around 12 psi. He say that because of experience & such. He can get to 14 psi. I guess that really dedicated patients could probably match that. So looks like that is a factor to use when interpreting the studies data.
He did divulge some other info that I'll try to put into the appropriate threads over the next day or two.
Watch for my posts. Some info is interesting.