My Update & an invitation to share your experiences

[defiant]

Default
I know it's so silly asking people over the Internet for medical knowledge but a lot of you guys here are very knowledgable regarding the subject of Kegels.

So please, one question guys....

I was making good progress initially but I think I was over zealous with the squeezing and wasn't taking enough rest, even though my routine was fairly light.

I believe I've fatigued the PC muscles now as my dribble is back and my no.2s (sorry!) aren't as formed either. Plus my EQ has taken a hit after great improvement.

The question: Have I done more permanent damage or like most overtrained muscles, will they eventually firm up, adapt and become strong again, with rest?

Thank you!!

[Andy425]

Another experience . . .

I had a radical prostatectomy in June 2012. I started Kegal lessons a few weeks before surgery. A week after surgery, when I had the catheter out, I started Kegels again and have been doing them every day since.

I have not had a natural erection since the night before surgery.

I still have leakage problems.

My best friend went through the same thing about a year after I did. He has not done any Kegals at all post-surgery. He does not get erections either, but does not have leakage problems.

The mechanism by which squeezing the PF muscles can help leakage problems is easily understood (it works to varying degrees for most men). I'm not a doctor, but I don't know how PF muscles can give you an erection. Is there any scientific evidence that it actually does anything?

From what I've learned, if either nerve bundle that controls erections is missing (like me) or even disturbed from surgery, yer kinda out of luck. Even when both bundles are "spared," from what I've read, yer pretty much out of luck for life.

But if ED is caused from something other than prostate cancer, maybe Kegels do help . . .? Anybody know?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: I just saw your last post.

Regarding Kegels: Were you actually trained on how to do them correctly? If you do them wrong it won't help at all, and could make things worse.

Here's what I did: Before surgery I went 2-3 times to the uro's female assistant, laid down on an examining table, and she shoved some kind of bulb gadget up my ass. It is connected to a laptop (I'm not kidding about any of this) and she tells me to squeeze the bulb and she can measure how strong I'm doing it, and if I'm using ONLY the PF muscles -- which is important. If you squeeze the wrong set of muscles you can actually force urine out of your bladder, according to what I was told.

Then she introduces an electrical charge through the bulb (I'm still not kidding). You can definitely feel it. This is supposed to strengthen the PF muscles.

Then a few weeks after surgery when urine leakage calmed down somewhat I went back, once each week for six weeks. Went through the whole routine each time, and she increased the electrical current each time. Start to finish was around 10-15 minutes. When she cranked the current up she said to let her know when I couldn't take any more. It wasn't pleasant.

Did this do any good -- who knows? But today, when healthcare is "free," it a good way of billing the insurance company for something that may be dubious at best.

[defiant]

Hey Andy,

I'm sorry to hear about your battles with ED and obviously your prostate issues. Life eh?! The most beautiful and cruel gift of all.

You have a clear cause for your problems whereas I don't. Or perhaps I do but I find it so hard for some reason to accept that this has all occurred because of head issues.

I'm quite positive Kegels help most men with their erections and erection quality but they must be done in the right way. I wasn't shown how to do them per se but she asked me to do a few while I was being scanned and she said I was doing them just fine.

I've certainly taxed them a bit and of course if they were weak to begin with, I have essentially run before I can walk.

I'm taking a 4-5 day break to reset and hopefully the muscles will have shored up by then. Going for another meeting with her to get more specific advice on regimens and how-tos as well.

I've exhausted all possible phsyical causes for my ED.

The only phsyical thing I could find that is perhaps contributing to all this is a weak pelvic floor.

My issues with anxiety around this whole subject are well-known and documented and it's this I really have to tackle, as yet I've not made a dent on it.

[Andy425]

Defiant: The easiest way to explain squeezing and isolating your PF muscle group is to use ONLY the muscle you use when in "a social situation" to control farting. If you start squeezing the abdominal or other muscles then you're doing it wrong.

Ask the doc for more specific advice about it.

[Andy425]

Defiant: I re-read your OP.

You said you last saw a "pelvic floor physio." I didn't know what a "physio" was so I Googled it and see that it's a physio-therapist? I wouldn't waste my time with anything other than a licensed MD, and I don't even trust them too much anymore.

But from what you said -- that you have urine AND bowel leakage -- I'm thinking maybe you have some neurological problem, maybe in your lower spine. I'm just a dumb toolmaker, but having had my share of medical problems in recent years I've learned more than I ever wanted to know about the human body.

Basic problem solving, whether figuring out a medical, electrical, mechanical, etc. problem is you first must come up with a firm diagnosis, so you know what the actual problem is. I could be totally off-base, and there aren't always firm diagnoses for medical problems (don't ask me how I know that) but if I were you I would see a neurologist. You will probably have to see an MD first to get a referral, which he may or may not do, but I wouldn't waste any more time with a guru; if you only had ED, then maybe. But urine and bowel leakage together makes me think a possible nerve problem.

And despite what they might tell you, a neurologist may not be able to help you either, but they might give you the best chance for an actual diagnosis, so at least you would know. Keep us posted.

[defiant]

Hi Andy,

Thanks again for your input. I appreciate it.

I think as far as my problem is concerned, a neurological cause is unlikely as I've had a brain tumour before and had all the subsequent investigations and treatment involved. Part of that being numerous MRIs and neurologist visits.

Also the fact that 2 weeks of Kegels had such an influence on my EQ would seem to suggest that they are at least part of the puzzle. I'm on a 4-5 day break from them as I feel as though I was overtraining. Plus urine and bowel leakage though mine (I wouldn't call it bad, just slight after I guess what was an incomplete bowel movement) both suggest a weak pelvic floor. And if I think back, I've been experiencing those things for a long time.

So thinking logically, having ruled out functional things like a leak or fracture and systemic things such as a low T level, all I have left is sympathetic overactivity and heightened norepinephrine every time i even think about sex or masturbation and a weak pelvic floor, which itself is intrinsically linked to erection and arousal. So this is a highly damaging combination. As I've found out.

These two things are my primary focus right now. Pelvic floor, well, a good Kegel regime can help that and even improve your abilities ten fold but the mind is another matter entirely and will take a long long time.